i dont know who dub greg is and im not planning to go to spain, as i said i intent to do my atpls here in ireland. i really dont have an attitude problem, it just annoys me to look for help and get some smart ass telling me to talk to other people. have you trained in this school in england yourself? it that an all inclusive package? accom txfrs etc? and yes you are probably right, initial training is fundamentally important and maybe cheap is not the way forward, but i am here to pick up info, so thanks..