Ok guys, found this stuff from a pprune discussion in 2004(see below) Basicly we are re-discussing things brought up in the past.That is a sad conclusion. Things WILL NOT CHANGE.They will keep throwing cookies at us to keep the folks reasonable happy. But in the meantime they keep on filling their pockets. It will be take it or leave it in this job. I have made up my mind and will soon hand in my resignation.
FRom feb2004:
I meet Net Jet crews from the left side of the pond on just about a weekly basis. The two major threads running here are baffling to them. Other than the griping legally required to maintain a current licence they like the place, the equipment and most of the work practices.
The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth.
Earlier this week I spoke face to face with a PPRuNer and asked for the most concise and brutal analysis of the issues being purposely obscured - the ones most important to those considering employment. The reason? PPRuNe is for the benefit of pilots and not companies.
The post by Kelly Hopper was the response I received. Note that the regular suspects have not refered to it, refuted a single word or rebutted any point whether historically or in terms of current arrangements. Digs and sneering are a semantic null - devoid of meaning and discounted totally here at the Towers.
The Air Luxor AOC and standard FTL's are a fact.
Generic Portugese FTL's are a fact.
The utterly err, unique NJE ummm, arrangement is a fact and a particularly interesting one in the light of the Crossair Jumbolina report. Something that would prove very interesting tested in employment, civil or criminal law. Something the legal section of the Portugese authorities should be looking at pretty sharpish to cover their own arses.
Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback.
Any sane, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious.
We've had vast amounts of wasted bandwidth while the two most critical issues for pro's have been intentionally avoided time after time. FTL's and the contract.
Anyone caring to rebut that point will discover the joys of cut and paste thrown back in their face. They will aslo have counter the findings of the Swiss accident investigation insisting on culmulative timing including transport and other duties undertaken prior to flight.
Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline.
Caveat Emptor
Regards
Followed by:
PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
(IC Lavs & Dunnies)
posted 7th February 2004 22:55
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Flight time limitations are a matter of record.
No NJE employee has every given an answer on these limitations. Re read the threads if you have any doubts.
The Crossair report has made extremely clear the JAR/Europs views on cumulative hours.
The UK CAA has had the drafts for many months due to the aircraft type involved in the accident. New methods of auditing all hours of duty including travel and between companies are flying around the various authorities.
Balpa are running a database due to the numbers now involved in litigation.
Let's see those who actually believe any of their writing regarding improving things. Tell pilots reading these threads straight:
Who employs you - the legal, responsible and answerable entity detailed in your contract.
Until that question can be answered reliably
anyone considering applying to NJE is gaining less employment protection than a contract pilot out in the third world.
Best pilots in the world or simply the dumbest??
The history of this site is littered with 10 page threads on employment at companies. The one's on the Britannia's, the Monarchs and many others die out in a couple of days. Have a look at the ones that go on and on and on for weeks and months. There are five at the moment and many more from the past.
8 years of running this place tells me this: Smoke + fire = 10 page plus topics.
FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries.
It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees is breathtaking.
I am disgusted at the attacks on pilots who have left NJE from employees who have spent a cumulative 14 pages avoiding answering any question on contracts or flight time limitations.
Regards to all
Rob
PS A private forum should be running out around Easter.
Are you the journalist or an unfortunate pilot with a 3rd world contract?
