PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - UAE FIR RVSM...shall we say... ISSUES!!
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Old 24th Apr 2006, 20:02
  #30 (permalink)  
AirNoServicesAustralia
 
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Just a few points.

You say here that everyone else gets the flight plan but the UAE doesn't therefore its the fault of the UAE. Firstly in many cases on inquiry to surrounding FIR's, they also didn't recieve a valid flight plan but took the word of the pilot in flight. We are not allowed to do that and need a hard copy of a valid flight plan in our posession to allow a flight to operate in RVSM airspace. Secondly, for some strange reason even though there are two addresses to send the flight plan to for the UAE ACC, some operators still send it to AUH APP and more often DUBAI APP, who see it is an overflyer and bin it. Another common reason for pushdowns is because some companys don't know how to cancel flight plans and instead file 5 flight plans for the same flight all with different Aircraft types and routes etc. Unless a flight plan is cancelled, we take the first flight plan as valid. Subsequently if the flight plan is for a 767 and the aircraft is coordinated to us as an A320, then effectively we have no flight plan for an A320, we therefore don't have that A/C as being RVSM approved, result, pushdown. Every pushdown is investigated so as to find out why we didn't recieve a flight plan.

And to the person who said it hasn't made a difference, there has been a huge improvement in the correct filing of flight plans since this started. We do call the neighbouring FIR ASAP to advise the aircraft to get a flight plan filed so they can stay up, and in at least 50% of the cases this solves the problem, but there are the usual suspects who no matter how many times they depart out of Pakistan or Egypt (common departure points where flight plans don't get filed properly from), and then get pushed down, rather than blaming the dodgy FPL filing people they have in these places, blame the ATCO on the other end of the radio.

My question is, in Europe, when a flight wants to leave say Geneva for Paris, and they don't have a flight plan filed, what happens??

You may think it is pedantic and stupid, and one one hand I may agree, but on the other hand, try being on the recieving end of flights with no flight plan that even though were coordinated to us from our next door FIR to be flying a certain way and then unexpectedly turn into oncoming traffic, because their flight plan we don't have has them going a different way. And the whole rubbish about this rule not applying to UAE airlines is well rubbish. While Gulf Air was still partly owned by Abu Dhabi we regularly had to push down aircraft overflying the UAE FIR due to no flight plan recieved. Bottom line about Emirates is they are rarely pushed down because, other than the odd time where they come out of Egypt and they have the same dodgy company filing for them there as many others, they manage to file a correct flight plan.

When this first started there was on average 30 pushdowns a day. Now most days there are less than 10. You may not agree with it, but it is making airlines file flight plans properly.
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