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Old 11th Dec 2005, 22:42
  #26 (permalink)  
rolaaand
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Age: 46
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Apologies to the original poster who has had thier opinions and questions turned into an EDI ScATCC slanging match....but I can't let this one go without adding my two pence worth so here goes.
I work at Scottish and spend the vast majority of my time doing the terminal control side of things.The airspace that we both hav e to work with at PH and Scottish is tight, restrictive, and just not designed to cope with the throughput of traffic that occurs during the extremely busy inbound flows that happen at PH now. Controllers at both units could do with getting together and thrashing out problems that they have with each other.
Due to the way flow control works there can be no PH arrivals for half an hour, then an hours worth in the next 30 minutes. I'm sure this is the same at most European airfields however.
The way i tend to work is to at least attempt to get a sequence going. I will make sure that the traffic by the time PH radar get it is all 6-10 miles in trail and doing max 250kts,with perhaps the first two or three in the sequence keeping high speed. Bear in mind that there are arrivals coming into the Talla sector from three directions for PH and this might mean aircraft getting slowed to 250kts 100 miles from PH-note to Airbus drivers-I know your aircraft can do 340kts but if I ask you to do 250 at SHAPP or MARGO it's for a good reason. I have never had any complaints from PH about my choice for the sequence and am well aware about the restrictions of some regional jets and the abitities of some turboprops at the lower levels. If holding is necessary as it inevitably will be then all it takes is a call from the radar controller to say "hold everything after the ABC123". This is not to say that my presentation of traffic is perfect, it never will be, I'm human, but I do my best. Some Scottish controllers will very rarely use speed control at all and do end up handing over traffic on parallel headings,never seen four abreast though. But even if you do get four abreast, as you say hootin' you're the approach proffesional,fill your boots and get them sequenced.
On my watch at Scottish we have a pretty good working relationship with our opposite watch at PH and any differences of opinion tend to be worked out with a friendly chat on the blower.
As 10W points out though, you do get to recognise voices on the phone and one PH controller in particular makes me cringe when i hear them. Ended up in the hold on Thursday morning and gave the traffic to PH radar(three or four in the hold,nothing major). It was a holocaust with stuff being 15 to 20 miles apart and none closer than twelve miles or so on final.Utter crap,it must be embarrasing to look over at PF and see them smashing them down the approach six(and occasionally three) miles apart.
I know that at Scottish we won't have a full picture of the traffic you work and that is a two way thing. If you do get a less than perfect traffic presentation from Talla sector then bear in mind what they are also doing at the time-all your arrivals from TRN, NEW, and MARGO,all PF arrivals from NEW and MARGO, all PK arrivals from NEW and MARGO all PH, PF and PK departures via NEW and PH prop. departures to DCS,as well as the many low level overflights going north. All of which can detract from their primary task of making sure you are not having a moan about us!
There are no plans for this to happen but I believe a good way to help appease the problem would be to have PH and PF radar move down to the shiny new centre when it opens.Traffic presentation would improve both ways due to the threat of someone a few seats down hurling abuse at you because it was crap!
Also it would end the ATCO2 baiting nonsense from PH radar controllers because you would get paid the same.

Headset
In my last post i completely neglected to put an opinion to any of your queries,sorry \'bout that chief. As you can read in this whole thread there are issue shall we say, between Scootish and PH. We all do our best and occasionally if you are given a direct routeing from Scottish because you are number one in that sector, you can get to PH to find out you are number four or five,cue extra track miles and a pissed off pilot! All it takes is for PH to have say an IFR inbound from Glasgow and a go around to fit back in the sequence, all of which Scottish will know nothing about when you arrive high and fast expecting a straight in. It happens and I don\'t think at the moment there is much that can be done about it, except making you adhere to all the level and speed restrictions on the STAR even during exceptionally quiet periods. All controllers will work hard to get you moving the most expeditious way we can,unfortunately we are not always on the same wavelength.
As for the direct routeings from SURAT/GOMOT in through SAB,ask as early as you can when you cross the Copenhagen Scottish boundary. Bear in mind that you transit a fair chunk of class G on your way down and RAF Leuchars is only a few miles north of PH. A few weeks back the BMA E145 from Copenhagen to PH gave his TCAS a good workout at FL170 ish near SAB. I hope it wasn\'t yourself dodging the Tornadoes. I know it saves a bit of time/fuel taking that route but for peace of mind join at NEW and fly the TWEED1d arrival. Much safer and you also have the added bonus of flying through my much maligned sector!
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