Typically arrogant in your reply 10w, not unexpected!
Your premise is based on a false assumption which was because you didn't pick up that I was talking about when traffic in the hold had been transferred to EDI. See above. Why would we complain about 3-4000' gaps if we had the traffic ourselves ? Doh !!! Also, the MATS Part 2 allows sequences. Don't like it ?? Then ask for it to be changed by inter unit agreement.
We are just trying that, its called Involve to Improve, but the initial meeting didn't sound very fruitful but we shall persevere.
but at least if you told ScACC what you would like then things can be done early for the benefit of all. Don't say it can't be done because I have had EDI controllers do exactly that with me before - e.g ''I'll take the first 2 on headings and would like 10 miles between subsequent arrivals in trail otherwise to the hold.''
My watch all try to do that, that is our job, end of story. We are not here to deliberately delay aircraft. My gripe is the reticence to use the hold by Scottish. When you were trialing the streaming it worked well and the Scottish watch opposite me were and are very good ,and to be honest are usually very helpful and proactive with suggesting that we may need to use the hold, lets face it you can see what traffic is coming to Edinburgh far earlier than we can. Also we are not sure what you are going to do with the individual aircraft i.e. widen one out, keep one's speed up etc. that is the point. Come next summer we need to standardise the inbounds so everyone is on a level playing field and knows what to expect which is why we want traffic automatically routeing to Tweed expecting to hold (not on a heading, in trail or 3 abreast but level separated and maybe only 1000' apart)
Maybe your personal forte is launching aircraft with less than 5 miles and a catch up situation instead ??
A bit of a personal slur I think, are you questioning my Professionalism? I thought we were talking about inbounds and stack management. Also seeing as you are a moderator of Pprune I think you should tone down your labelling of people as idiots.
I guess you don't fly ?? Traffic is cleared by Scottish predominantly on the STAR on first contact. Therefore the Captain will be briefing to enter the hold at the STAR terminal fix. That's SOP in IFR flying. Still with me ??
Ooooh how patronising anybody would think you are an ATCO1!!!!!!
weren't EDI offered places attending ScACC TRUCE last year where TMA Holding was the core exercise ?? EDI could have gained experience of managing holds in the sim, both sides could have discussed the scenarios and outcomes and how things could be improved, plus built up some understanding. Oh yeah, nobody appeared !!
No idea, i'm a shopfloor Atco and knew nothing but we wouldn't be able to release people to attend unless it is on rest days and lets face it after the banding issues and the last pay farce the lower end of the scales feel left behind and not willing to give up this time (but that is another can of worms)
These issues I agree need settling and before next summer as really the whole TMA needs looking at as lets face it it is not very efficient compared to down south. We are hoping to move forward and meet again with your colleagues but it takes BOTH sides to budge a little not just us.