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Old 2nd Sep 2005, 10:45
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spekesoftly

The ANO entry you quote is concerned with:

(6)__Order of landing

(a)__An aircraft while landing or on final approach to land shall have the right of way over other aircraft in flight or on the ground or water.
The light aircraft operating outside the ATZ is not concerned with the order of landing. He isn't operating at that aerodrome. He is 8 miles away from it.

But let's assume he is looking at his half mil UK ICAO Topographical chart. He might see an IAP chevron associated with the aerodrome (but of course the chevron is only shown on the prevalent instrument runway, he might be on the other approach and not notice it on the chart). That will strongly recommend that he contacts the ATSU if within 10NM of the aerodrome concerned. However, he is under no obligation to, and may not even have a radio. The light aircraft is 100% entitled to be there and the aircraft on final has to be ready to meet unknown aircraft within Class G airspace. It's just something operators in Class G have to be aware of and cope with.

This could apply though:

_(5)__Flight in the vicinity of an aerodrome

Without prejudice to the provisions of rule 39, a flying machine, glider or airship while flying in the vicinity of what the commander of the aircraft knows or ought reasonably to know to be an aerodrome, or moving on an aerodrome, shall unless in the case of an aerodrome having an air traffic control unit that unit otherwise authorises:

(a)__conform to the pattern of traffic formed by other aircraft intending to land at that aerodrome, or keep clear of the airspace in which the pattern is formed; and
But the interpretation of pattern is the circuit I believe. It certainly doesn't mean someone on a 8+ mile final (as an aircraft at 2500' on the ILS might be). Otherwise you could go to the other extreme and deem the 'pattern' to commence from the top of descent. And no one would be able to fly anywhere

bundybear

1. Even partially configured at the top of an ILS, a 737 will still be doing 3nm/min. Small windscreens and high workload = difficulty in aquiring visually, light traffic.
I don't think there is any argument that there are practicalities which make things difficult for airline pilots. But such difficulties are no defence for not complying with the Rules of the Air, otherwise there would be exemptions granted from the rules. As I said before, the awareness factor seems to be lacking with some, and hopefully a very small number of, commercial crews. A lack of awareness of the airspace they operate in, and a therefore a lack of awareness of what they might encounter and how the law dictates that collision prevention should be carried out.

2. When fully configured, a 737 is not very manouverable, and in fact, any requirement to deviate off a stable approach would almost certainly require a go-around. Any TCAS RA when fully configured does require an immediate go-around.
If that's what it takes to avoid a collision, then it must be done. It's what crews are trained for and will be able to do almost instinctively.

There goes a tonne of fuel, now even higher workload, still with the conflicting traffic in the area.
I would hope the burning of a tonne of fuel would never be a factor in making any decision concerning flight safety.

I would suggest that airmanship would dictate that a light aircraft approaching a jet on approach to an airfield, from whichever direction, should give it some room. You will be able to see us well before we can see you.
The problem with this is it depends on circumstances and geometry in each individual case. I am sure most light aircraft pilots, myself included, would do so provided it did not affect our own flight safety, and provided we see you in the first place. I might be crossing your track at an acute angle. That puts you approaching from my 8 o'clock. Maybe my aircraft type has a poor view in that quarter, particularly if I have a high wing and you are descending towards me. For example, I might be operating 1000' below cloud in VMC in my non radio Piper Cub (I wish !!) crossing you at right angles 8 miles out on final at 2500'. You pop out the cloud at 3500' just over 3 miles away from me - or about a minute from our flight paths crossing. I am high winged, I am slow, I am tracking at 90 degrees to your track but actually pointing 20 degrees to the right of my track to combat drift. You are out of my line of sight. I can't see you at all, never mind before you can see me. Meanwhile one of you is heads down flying the ILS, the other is doing pre landing checks or other tasks. So who is looking out of your cockpit ?? It's a worst worst case, but totally feasible.

I guess all I'm saying is that even with the 'difficulties' jets have with sighting and manouevring to avoid other aircraft, there is no absolution from the law and it describes how aerial collisions are to be avoided in terms of rights of way. Sometimes you are going to have to take control of the situation and spend extra fuel to keep yourselves safe.

Also TCAS is only able to provide us with a traffic RESOLUTION, if both aircraft are using mode C. Even in the circuit at Sandtoft, Mode C helps the aircraft and radar.
Agreed, however as you are no doubt aware, the mandate for SSR carraige is non existent in Class G in the vicinity of aerodromes. You have to be ready to counter non transponding non radio aircraft in that environment. Any pilot placing a blind reliance on the 'fish finder' and not looking out the window is setting themselves up for a potential scare ... or worse.

Plenty of space out there, we just need to learn to share it.
Absolutely, but it's give and take. Commercial operators have no right to expect the waves to part for them all the time just because they have fare paying passengers on board or because it costs £££££ per minute they are flying. Airspace is a shared resource and Farmer Joe in his Piper Cub who is also paying £££££ in terms of his own personal budget has equal rights and responsibilities under the law. Pilots on both sides of the equation should sometimes accept that the best course of action is to forego your legal right and be flexible. The problem is that the airlines expect it to always be the little guy

Perhaps this would be a good thread for Flying Lawyer to comment on
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