PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Runway incursion consequence ?
View Single Post
Old 23rd Mar 2005, 21:56
  #11 (permalink)  
av8boy
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California USA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry about the length (I was just saying that to somebody…). Contains a bit of a rant as well…

First, file the ASRS report. This is exactly the sort of thing one sees in ASRS reports all the time. For instance, here’s a Cherokee driver telling his story in one report (and I’m sorry, but the traditional format for these things is ALL CAPS. I just cut and pasted)…

IT WAS DUSK TURNING TO NIGHT. THERE WAS LIGHT RAIN, AND THE WIND WAS GUSTING TO 28 KTS AND VARIABLE. I WAS ON A TRAINING FLT. I CALLED UP TWR AND APPARENTLY THEY TOLD ME TO POSITION AND HOLD. I APPARENTLY READ THIS BACK, BUT PROCEEDED TO TAKEOFF. THUS, TAKING OFF WITHOUT A CLRNC. I BELIEVE THIS EVENT WAS A RESULT OF HUMAN ERROR. I WAS PREOCCUPIED WITH THE WIND AND KEEPING THE CORRECT CORRECTION IN. ALSO, I WAS EXPECTING A CLRNC FOR TAKEOFF SINCE I DID NOT SEE ANYONE AHEAD OF ME. THUS, WHEN I READ BACK THE INSTRUCTIONS FROM ATC, I DID NOT REALLY PROCESS THE INFO. IN ORDER TO PREVENT THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE STRESSED THAT IN TIME OF EXTRA CONDITIONS (EX, WX/WINDS) YOU STILL NEED TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THINGS THAT ARE DONE IN EVERY FLT. THIS WAS A RESULT OF MY ERROR AND WAS COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL.

Here’s a short one from an Airbus crew. Obviously not the same problem you had, but just included as a reminder that, “there but for the grace of God go I…”

TAXIING FOR TKOF, RWY 31 AT LGA. CREW THOUGHT THAT CLRNC HAD BEEN RECEIVED TO POSITION AND HOLD. ACFT TAXIED ONTO RWY AND LNDG ACFT HAD TO GAR.

This sort of stuff happens more often than anyone would like, but usually involves taxiing onto the runway when instructed to hold short, rather than taking-off when instructed to hold in position.

Second, please understand that I don’t work for FAA enforcement, so take this with a grain of salt. I believe that the penalty could be nothing at all, a warning letter (which should purge itself from your record in two years) or up to a 30 to 90 day suspension. In that range, I’d lean toward thinking it would be nothing at all or no more than a warning letter. But again, grain of salt… This assumes that anything at all happens. It may not have been reported, or it may have been reported but no action taken. Finally, it may be reported and you may get a call from the FAA which involves no more than a simple chat about what happened. It all depends. Also remember the “constructive attitude” the FAA is always talking about. Above everything else, file the ASRS. Assuming it was as innocent an incident as you describe, filing the form should at least mitigate the penalty.

Third, I’d be thinking carefully about the engine “sputtering and choking” part of the story. Yes, you want to be honest and open. However you do not want to introduce things into the investigation that were not already there. Again, I don’t have much info to work with here, but my first thought when I read your narrative was, “if the engine was sputtering and choking, why were you taking-off?” While you probably DO have a very good explanation for all of this, I’d think twice about adding to the list of stuff I had to explain. That’s just me though.

Fourth, I can understand why you’d follow an ATC instruction to park it and go home—I mean, it IS an ATC instruction, right? However, it was nonsense. The controller is in no position to tell you to park it and go home. I’m a little conflicted on a response to this though. My first thought is, pull that tape and make a stink about it. Still, you may want to let sleeping dogs lie… If you ask for a copy of the tape of the incident, somebody is going to listen to it as they make your copy. That might initiate enforcement action against you, whereas by just leaving it alone the whole thing might have blown over. On the other hand, if you ask for a copy of the tape because you want to fully understand what happened might also show constructive attitude.

In any case, I don’t like the position that this controller put you in. You certainly don’t want to get into an argument on the air, and at the time you were walking on eggshells because of the deviation. I’ve been sitting here thinking about this. Even with all the time I had to think about it, the best response I could come up with is not incredibly stellar:

Him: Taxi to parking and go home.
You: I’d like to taxi back to the runway for takeoff.

What he says at that point helps you understand what the heck he was thinking. If he says “taxi to the runway” you know he didn’t mean to key the mic. If he says “I said taxi to parking,” then you know it’s a losing battle today.

Finally, in my career (which started more than 20 years ago) I’ve had probably two aircraft takeoff when told to hold in position. I’ve had many more than that taxi onto the runway for God-knows-what reason. The thing is, it’s really not that hard to sort out the pilots who make a good faith mistake like all of us do, from those who really don’t have a clue. You can even see it in the ASRS reports. There’s a clear difference between “Sorry. I misunderstood,” and “that hold-short line needs to be repainted. You can’t even see it. And it was snowing. And the sun was in my eyes.” As a controller I’ve escalated no more than three of these kinds of things for enforcement action (none of them were the ones where the pilot started the takeoff roll after being instructed to hold in position). All of the ones I sent up for enforcement were pilots who were clearly a danger to themselves and others, and all of them got at least 180 day suspensions. I’m supposed to escalate all of them. I don’t. Don’t see the point, especially when it messes with the career of somebody who just learned a very valuable lesson.

Sorry about the rant. I hate this kind of cr@p coming from my fellow controllers (however the advice you've gotten from controllers on this forum is excellent). Final question: am I to understand that this was a contract (non-FAA) tower?

File the report.

Dave
av8boy is offline