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Old 7th July 2004 | 13:35
  #45 (permalink)  
Mike Cross
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,784
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Wasn't Teneriffe a bang that happened under ATC control?? Similarly the Swiss crash.
Of what relevance is that?

I believe the conclusion was that the Swiss crash could have been avoided if one of the crews had followed the correct procedure and obeyed the TCAS rather than ATC.

Apologies if I've got it wrong but it seems a circular argument.

Tenerife

KLM: "KL4805 is now ready for takeoff. We're waiting for our ATC clearance."

ATC: "KL4805. You are cleared to the Papa beacon. Climb to and maintain Flight Level 90. Right turn after takeoff. Proceed with heading 040 until intercepting the 325 radial from Las Palmas VOR."

This clearance is for after they are airborne and is not takeoff clearance. As First Officer Meurs began to read back the ATC's message, Van Zanten released his foot from the brakes and began advancing the throttles for takeoff.

KLM: "Roger, sir, we are cleared to the Papa beacon, Flight Level 90 until intercepting the 325. We're now at takeoff."

The ATC clearly believed that this meant the KLM was at takeoff position, awaiting clearance, at the end of the runway:

ATC: "OK. Standby for takeoff. I will call you."

Pan Am: "We are still taxiing down the runway!"

Tragically, the KLM only heard the "OK" but never heard the rest of what the ATC said
Doesn't sound as though your implied criticism of ATC holds water to me.
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