Mid air over Hertfordshire
Paxing All Over The World
I've been refraining from saying you don't know what you're talking about here. The fact is, you don't, but I don't mean that as a criticism. I daresay you speak for thousands of non-pilots,
TonyR, My question did relate more to the space under discussion, Hertfordshire, and I should have made that clearer. But I have no idea where 'CAS' is, so please enlighten me.
There is no need to use words like "you really are something" when I started the post 'non-pilot speaking'. I am glad to you enjoyed your flight and trust that you have many more but please refrain from insulting a person who is trying to understand an area of which they know little.
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PAXboy,
I am not out to insult you or anyone but as someone who flys light aircraft more than most ie. 250 odd hours a year all over Europe, I am more worried about this type of thread sending the wrong message.
I just DON'T see a big problem, sure there are busy spots but not that busy, and usually for short periods.
The other thing that worries me is the amount of airline drivers that rant and rave about light aircraft being in "THEIR" sky and some will tell you about having to do steep turns to avoid us every time they fly, (what a load of tosh)
Most PPLs have more sense than you give them credit for and very few don't know know where they are and what they are doing.
I think some common sense and better situational awareness and understanding of each others position, from both private and comercial pilots, keeping ATC well informed would go a long way to resolve the situation in the London and other busy areas.
Tony
I am not out to insult you or anyone but as someone who flys light aircraft more than most ie. 250 odd hours a year all over Europe, I am more worried about this type of thread sending the wrong message.
I just DON'T see a big problem, sure there are busy spots but not that busy, and usually for short periods.
The other thing that worries me is the amount of airline drivers that rant and rave about light aircraft being in "THEIR" sky and some will tell you about having to do steep turns to avoid us every time they fly, (what a load of tosh)
Most PPLs have more sense than you give them credit for and very few don't know know where they are and what they are doing.
I think some common sense and better situational awareness and understanding of each others position, from both private and comercial pilots, keeping ATC well informed would go a long way to resolve the situation in the London and other busy areas.
Tony
TonyR - its not tosh - it happened to me yesterday. Mode A return suddenly sparks up overhead Weston. Pain in the backside but I'm not ranting and raving about it.
What will happen and is in the pipeline is a large increase in CAS to surround Cardiff and Bristol.
Now.
Do you want to fit at least a Mode C transponder to pretty much everything - which is NOT in the same league as going to the moon as some intimate - OR see ever larger chunks of airspace become Controlled?
I prefer the former as someone who flies many different classes of aircraft.
Cheers
WWW
What will happen and is in the pipeline is a large increase in CAS to surround Cardiff and Bristol.
Now.
Do you want to fit at least a Mode C transponder to pretty much everything - which is NOT in the same league as going to the moon as some intimate - OR see ever larger chunks of airspace become Controlled?
I prefer the former as someone who flies many different classes of aircraft.
Cheers
WWW
The Original Whirly
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PAXboy,
A friendly word of advice here, if I may. When, in response to TonyR's post, you write:
You can really hardly complain if he gets just a teeny weeny bit annoyed at the tone of it. You didn't imply that you knew nothing about it and wanted it explained - it read, to me at any rate, as a criticism. And, I might add, as a criticism of all of us who fly anywhere in "our limited airspace", not just those flying in the overcrowded South-East.
I agree with TonyR and Aussie Andy, and some others - this is not a big problem in most of the UK. It is in some areas...they're pink on the chart and we call them controlled airspace. And there's a few, like the area of Hertfordshire under discussion and the Manchester Low Level Route, where I think something needs to be done. But a simple, inexpensive, voluntary solution like a dedicated frequency for blind position calls by pilots would do the trick, so why are we complicating matters?
A friendly word of advice here, if I may. When, in response to TonyR's post, you write:
Eh? In Britain? With our limited air space and all the regional airports opening up and ERJs and CRJs nipping in and out? I can undertsand that you might want to but...
I agree with TonyR and Aussie Andy, and some others - this is not a big problem in most of the UK. It is in some areas...they're pink on the chart and we call them controlled airspace. And there's a few, like the area of Hertfordshire under discussion and the Manchester Low Level Route, where I think something needs to be done. But a simple, inexpensive, voluntary solution like a dedicated frequency for blind position calls by pilots would do the trick, so why are we complicating matters?
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PAXboy,
This link may help you to understand the area of CAS that we are discussing. Click on 'London Stansted -london Luton' and open the pdf file.
CAA Low-level routes, congested airspace etc
Actually, everyone should have a look at this link as it gives valuable information about flying in chokepoints around Luton, Stansted, Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester and East Midlands.
This link may help you to understand the area of CAS that we are discussing. Click on 'London Stansted -london Luton' and open the pdf file.
CAA Low-level routes, congested airspace etc
Actually, everyone should have a look at this link as it gives valuable information about flying in chokepoints around Luton, Stansted, Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester and East Midlands.
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PaxBoy said
"Of all the threads that I have read on PPRuNe since I joined - this is the one that has surprised, and frightened, me the most."
If you want frightening threads on this site go to Rumours and News and find the discussions relating to rosters causing fatigued airline pilots, airline pilots apparently having fuel decisions made for them by accountants, and airline pilots turning up to work drunk (and then the others who crawl out of the woodwork and try and excuse that behaviour!!). You should also be aware that plenty of airline pilots in the UK have come out of training regimes that provide no real experience of general aviation, and plenty of others have obviously forgotten their roots. It's not all bad though, I know quite a few airline pilots who enjoy flying little planes and I think most would be as resistant to blanket mandatory Mode S as the people on this forum who only fly for fun.
"Of all the threads that I have read on PPRuNe since I joined - this is the one that has surprised, and frightened, me the most."
If you want frightening threads on this site go to Rumours and News and find the discussions relating to rosters causing fatigued airline pilots, airline pilots apparently having fuel decisions made for them by accountants, and airline pilots turning up to work drunk (and then the others who crawl out of the woodwork and try and excuse that behaviour!!). You should also be aware that plenty of airline pilots in the UK have come out of training regimes that provide no real experience of general aviation, and plenty of others have obviously forgotten their roots. It's not all bad though, I know quite a few airline pilots who enjoy flying little planes and I think most would be as resistant to blanket mandatory Mode S as the people on this forum who only fly for fun.
Paxing All Over The World
Thank you ALL very much for replies, explanations and links, which have been very helpful and informative.
I do not normally read this forum but had a specific interest in this ghastly event.
Thanks again.
I do not normally read this forum but had a specific interest in this ghastly event.
Thanks again.
