PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Dick Smith Now Blames Virgin Captain, And His lack Of Training.
Old 27th Apr 2004, 23:24
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the leyland brothers
 
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Wiz,

You say that everyone at Liverpool is happy. That does not sound like a farce.

I think your ATS airspace classification chart and my Aerad data are entirely consistent. Were you suggesting there was an inconsistency?

I will make the assumption that you fly IFR most of the time.

Have you ever been lined up on Liverpool’s runway and ready to go and been told :

“XYZ, traffic is a Cessna 152 on upwind, he’ll be making an early right turn and remaining in the circuit – report sighting?”

“Traffic in sight, XYZ”

“XYZ, with that traffic in sight, clear for take-off runway 27”

That’s traffic information. You are not being “positively separated” from the VFR aircraft, nor is the controller required to provide a separation service.

I imagine that’s what they do at Liverpool?

Air traffic controllers are not required to separate IFR from VFR in class D – just the same as controllers are not required to separate IFR from VFR in class E.

As you point out, the only real difference between class D and class E is that in class D all VFR traffic is known.

But the VFR Lancair in the SMOKA incident was known, had been assigned a discreet transponder code, and had been radar identified.

Yet the controllers still cleared the IFR aircraft to descend through the level of known VFR traffic. Why would they do that?

I am not aware of any rule that says Australian class E radar controllers MUST descend IFR aircraft through the level of known VFR traffic. If you are aware of such a rule then please provide a reference for it.

To the contrary, common sense dictates that to do so would be highly unwise.

A responsible controller would say to an IFR aircraft :

“XYZ, traffic in your 2 o’clock, 1 mile, maintaining 9500 feet, a Cessna 182 – report sighting?”

or

“XYZ, traffic in your 2 o’clock, 1 mile, maintaining 9500 feet unverified, type unknown – report sighting?”

(as they do in the USA about 10,000 times a day)

“traffic in sight, XYZ”

“XYZ, descend altitude 9500 feet”

That is a traffic information service, not a separation service.

A controller who was trying to notch up another “NAS System Failure” would say to an IFR aircraft :

“XYZ, traffc in your 2 o’clock, 1 mile, maintaining 9500 feet, a Cessna 182 – descend altitude 9500 feet”

That goes just the same for class D as it does for class E.


Now THAT’S a farce.
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