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Dick Smith Now Blames Virgin Captain, And His lack Of Training.

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Dick Smith Now Blames Virgin Captain, And His lack Of Training.

Old 22nd Apr 2004, 21:15
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Unhappy Dick Smith Now Blames Virgin Captain, And His lack Of Training.

Despite previous stories, Dick Smith was just on 4BC again a few minutes ago, and he now blames the Virgin Captain, and his (the Virgin Captains) lack of training, for the incident near Brisbane.

He claims that the Virgin Captain acted too early.

He also said the Airservices Australia board are voting today on whether or not to stop the new proceedures, and he hopes they will not.
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Old 22nd Apr 2004, 21:51
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He claims that the Virgin Captain acted too early
Remember lads, wait 'til you see the whites of their eyes...........

Hold on, aren't we trying not to get that close?
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Old 22nd Apr 2004, 23:18
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Exclamation

Standby for "Revised TCAS Procedures" by eccentric, Dick Smith.

YOU got it WRONG (again), Dick.
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Old 22nd Apr 2004, 23:41
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It will always be SOMEONE else’s fault!

The Airspace could not possibly be the reason these aircraft are getting close to each other, could it?!

Imagine what dribble we would hear after a MAC

What a crying shame “Burning of Witches” is illegal
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Old 22nd Apr 2004, 23:44
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Angry

Makes you think- how many fools do we have to suffer? Looking forward to Dick's revised TCAS procedures- not!
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 02:24
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LAME,

Dick Smith has finally cemented his total lack of understanding of RPT jet operations.

This has NOTHING to do with any experience levels of the VB crew and EVERYTHING to do with the fact they complied correctly with the TCAS commands.

Stop using crews as the EXCUSE Dick and start looking at what is really occurring in Australia`s airspace.

It appears TCAS will be needed more and more in this very challenging environment.

Perhaps the VB Captain might like to challenge Dick in the court system ?
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 03:07
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I did NOT say I believe him........

Just that is what HE said.

Trouble is a lot of the Public will hear him, and worse still will trust and believe him.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 03:33
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Transcript for info...

Transcript 4BC John and Ross 6:50am EST 23/4/04

COMPERE: As you may recall, a little while ago on the program Dick Smith was on with us discussing the changes to air traffic control arrangements in Australia and the opposition thereto from airline pilots and air traffic controllers.
At the time Dick had some, well fairly shall we say, stern things to say about the performance of air traffic controllers and particularly in relation to one incident. Dick joins us on the line now. G'day, Dick.

DICK SMITH: Hi there, Ross, hi there, John. How are things?

CHORUS: Well thank you. Good to talk to you again.

DICK SMITH: Look, what I wanted to do was apologise for the air traffic controllers because I accused them of letting this incident happen between the airline and the plane sort of just near Maroochydore. But the ATSB report, the Australian Transport Safety Board, came out yesterday and it shows clearly that, if the airline pilot had followed the air traffic control instructions and just kept descending, that the planes would have passed many miles apart.
What I just couldn't believe is that a pilot would actually, when he was told to descend by air traffic control, would actually climb and turn right into the path of another aeroplane. And that's what's happened. So it just simply wasn't the air traffic controller's fault. I apologise for that.
I can actually imagine the air traffic controller sitting there just in horror to see this plane turn right into the - the airline turn right into the path of the small plane and then climb without even telling the air traffic controller what he was doing. So that was just horrendous.

COMPERE: Yes, well Dick, good on you. It takes a strong man to say I'm sorry and I got it wrong, which is always the mark of a good man.

DICK SMITH: There's just one thing I could mention and that is that what does worry me is the Australian Transport Safety Board report, instead of saying that the airline pilot shouldn't have done that, the ATSB is sort of a mate's network and it actually says that no one made any error and tried to make out that this is how the air space is to work.
But anyone who's listening I can tell you that you follow air traffic control instructions. There is one time when you're allowed to not take any notice of air traffic control and that is when you get what they call a resolution advisory. It's a special emergency call out in your equipment in the aircraft.
In this particular case, the airline pilot actually acted before he got that, and that's just - I've never heard of such a thing ever happening. I couldn't believe an airline pilot would do that.

COMPERE: All right, Dick, well thank you for that. Are we any closer to a resolution of this? I mean, following your appearance on the program - let me tell you, Dick - we were deluged with very, very, very, very bitter and angry emails.

DICK SMITH: Yes, no look I notice The Australian this morning has an article and the most telling point of the article, it says that the Australian Transport Safety Bureau figures, and what it says here, 'No adverse safety trends since the new system has been imposed.'
Now the Airservices Board, I understand, is voting today on whether to reverse it or not. I hope they won't because look, we've had just on five months and you always get teething problems. In this particular case, this incident north of Brisbane, I think it was a very serious one even though the ATSB have tried to sort of, on the mate's network, tried to say it isn't serious.
I think it was serious but I'm sure it all goes back to training because I don't think these airline pilots have been trained correctly and I think that's very serious. Hopefully if we can do that, it shows that even without the proper training, the system hasn't had any adverse safety effects. And once we get it in working properly, it will be a lot safer and of course less expensive.

COMPERE: All right, Dick, okay. Well look thanks for calling in this morning. We appreciate it.

DICK SMITH: Great to talk to you.

COMPERE: Yeah, good to talk to you too.

COMPERE: Just some angry air traffic controllers after the last…

COMPERE: Oooh yeah. Did you see some of those emails? I thought the paper was going to catch on fire. The debate will continue to rage on and let's hope for the safety of the Australian travelling public that Dick Smith's right. Because, as I said to him the other day, if they get it wrong and there's a disaster, there's going to be a fairly few sets of goolies on the platter, I tell you.
ends
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 03:37
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Maybe now Richard (dick) Branson might come out in defense of his airline and his pilots and we know he also knows how to use the media…

See it now Channel tonight 7:00

DICK verses DICK

My moneys on DICK…

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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 04:09
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Angry

"...what I wanted to do was apologise for the air traffic controllers.."
He STILL has not apologised TO the air traffic controller, whom he originally accused of "a "basically criminal" action".

Does Dick Smith come across to anyone else as a "loose cannon"?
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 04:16
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Danger

Any one who has read these entries under the many topics herein could easily come to the conclusion that the main protagonist in this saga is suffering from classic manic-depressive sydrome with an associated persercution complex.

He clearly shows why our time has become the most litigeous in history. No one is willing to take responsibility for their own actions, or where an "incident" occurs people are quick to apportion blame to those who cannot (due to legal, financial or education constraints) defend themselves.

It is so much easier to shoot the messenger and then make a big song and dance for the "unwashed masses" than it is to meekly and humbly apologise for putting your Gucchi loafers into your oral orifice and admit to the world that, due to your overweening huberis, an error of judgement has been made.

Come on, Dick, do you really think that VB would allow a pilot take command/fly without being, not only trained but also proving to his/her check captain, CASA et al that he/she is conversant with and fully understand his/her responsibilities and required actions in accordance with Virgins' SOPs.

If you don't know that then please give me and everyone else in ATC/the travelling public/innocent bystanders at least 24 hours notice of your intention to fly so I can get me/any RPT/Charter/GA aircraft the hell out of your way, cause I don't want to be anywhere near you, nor have anyone else who may be affected near you, when you take to the air.

Last edited by welcome_stranger; 23rd Apr 2004 at 04:26.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 04:40
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I've spent some time reading the same reports that Dick was commenting on and don't understand his conclusion. What is he expecting crews to do when they don't visually acquire the uncontrolled traffic his project has placed in their vicinity? Is he expecting the crew to have a leap of faith in NAS & generic-copy biscuits and just plough on through? Please be consistent, are we gods whose every instruction is hallowed or criminal scum to be made unemployed?

Other threads with posts from US controllers admit they get stacks of RA, and the pilots comply with them and everybody celebrates the resulting regular confusion with apple pie and bbq hot dogs. Is Dick suggesting we shouldn't? Proud as I am of my profession I don't want to be stabbed by a surviving relative because a crew obeyed my instruction while the box on the dashboard is telling them to do something different.

Please feel free to keep up the professional approach pilot heros, I do fly from time to time.

One point I wondered about, is a heading change something we should expect from an aircraft experiencing an RA? I sorta thought it just commanded vertically? Or was it in response to a suggested heading from the much-maligned ATC involved. This is not a critisism, just a question.

By the way Dick, that's not an apology, and you owe one to the Virgin crew as well now.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 04:42
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DICK SMITH: There's just one thing I could mention and that is that what does worry me is the Australian Transport Safety Board report, instead of saying that the airline pilot shouldn't have done that, the ATSB is sort of a mate's network and it actually says that no one made any error and tried to make out that this is how the air space is to work.
He's gone from bad to worse.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 04:49
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So now if I have this right, Dicky has bagged ATSB for being a mates network, AirServices for being a bunch of fatcats lining their pockets with bonuses based on profits made, the controllers for being criminals and Virgin pilots for being incorrectly trained and basically criminally negligent as well. How many friends does this guy have left, and how many more people does he have to piss off before he is cast aside by John Anderson.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 05:04
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Maybe we just cast aside John Anderson and Dick will lose his chief cheer squad and sympathetic ear in the halls of power in one fell swoop.
The silence would be wonderful.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 05:40
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So, have any of you blokes tried calling talkback radio or writen a letter to the editor? THis is all preaching to the converted in this forum. We can all now see that Dick has jumped out of the frypan into the fire, but unless our viewpiont is communicated, there is little point in continuing to vent spleen on PPRuNe.
 
Old 23rd Apr 2004, 09:51
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Simple question: In controlled airspace does a pilot ignore an ATC instruction without a TCAS RA? Simple answer: NO
A serious educational void in basic aeronautical principles is surfacing within the Australian aviation industry. Firstly ATC controllers are found deficient in their ability to provide efficient levels of service and handle a reasonable workload. Next, airline pilots suddenly realize they should have been looking out the window all these years (let ya in on a lil' secret, doin 250 clicks in a jet don't make ya speciol). And now, a blatant disregard in TCAS operational procedure.
Australia has become isolationist and lost touch with reality. Mr Smith can not overcome decades of accumulative festering bureacracy and union mediocrity on his own. Bring in the US cavalry!
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 10:26
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From reading the ATSB report, the Virgin pilots did what any other PROFESSIONAL pilot would do. If you are descending and a (TA) traffic alert is given with the traffic below, reducing rate of descent or levelling out is the obvious and safe course of action. From the report, the 737 reduced rate of descent first, which DOESN'T contravene the ATC clearance. It wasn't until the Resolution Advisory (RA) that the 737 climbed.

Time for dickie to go I think, and let professionals not amateurs run aviation.
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Old 23rd Apr 2004, 11:06
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" But the ATSB report, the Australian Transport Safety Board, came out yesterday and it shows clearly that, if the airline pilot had followed the air traffic control instructions and just kept descending, that the planes would have passed many miles apart."



Ummm dick are we reading the same report. If the virgin pilot stayed on track they would not have passed by many miles. My understanding of the event was that if both ac kept climbing and descending as per profile they would have been at the same level with less than 1nm between them. the small diversion by virgin during the RA made very little difference to how close they came.
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Old 24th Apr 2004, 20:33
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Airmanship

It's interesting that the actions of the Lancair pilot havent been questioned.

Regardless of whether he/she is entitled to be there or not, why would anyone who applies consideration to good airmanship climb to that altitude in that area?

What is wrong with 12500 or something like that crossing the arrival paths into Brisbane?

If you fly VFR and want to use those levels then there is an onus on you having some understanding of IFR operations that you may interact with.
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