Originally Posted by
Asturias56
Browsing I came across this from 9 years ago:-
Old 1st April 2017 | 16:54 #
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Just This Once... Joined:
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UK Quote:
Originally Posted by
MSOCS UK carriers won't have the weight and quantity of firepower of the CVNs. We have to be realistic.
Indeed, this is all about joint power projection and nothing akin to US carrier groups. The RN is simply incapable of putting together its own self-supporting carrier group. The cuts have been too deep and it simply does not have the capacity to put together a group of ships that are fuelled, fully armed, manned, trained and equipped for independent ops - let alone sail such a group as a matter of routine.
The USN may make this look easy, but it is anything but and it costs more treasure than our Treasury is willing to accept.
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https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation-57/NutLoose
on 29th March 2026
Due to a shortage of ships, London had to lease the German frigate Sachsen to fulfill its NATO obligations. Starting in April, the United Kingdom is supposed to take over as the flagship of NATO’s Standing Naval Maritime Group 1 (SNMG1), a rapid-response force operating in the North Atlantic and the Baltic Sea. However, after the frigate Dragon was deployed to Cyprus to protect British bases, it turned out that the Royal Navy has no combat-ready ship capable of replacing it. Only two destroyers in the British fleet remain capable of carrying out such missions — Dauntless and Duncan. At the same time, three other ships — HMS Daring, Diamond, and Defender — are currently in dock awaiting upgrades to their power systems. As a result, ministers had to turn to Germany to help fill the gap and meet their commitments in the Atlantic Ocean and the Baltic Sea in April. Members of the British Parliament expressed dissatisfaction with the lack of their own military ships, calling the situation a “national disgrace,” according to The Telegraph. As it turns out, we are also “perfectly prepared” for a war in the Baltic Sea. What were you doing during these four years that Ukraine gave you at the cost of thousands upon thousands of lives, guys…
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I really should have done this on the other thread, but lets also "fact check" the nonsense here.
1. As Biggus noted on that thread, the UK/RN have not "leased" a German frigate. Because our nominated ship for the job (Dragon) has been re-tasked to defend RAF Akrotiri (although frankly, Lord knows why a premier land base needs defending by the RN), the 1* battle staff for SNMG1 has had to embark in a German unit assigned to the force.
2. Duncan or Dauntless could have been tasked, but NCHQ has decided to prioritise the upcoming Op Firecrest.
3. None of the class are "in dock awaiting upgrades to their power systems". Daring is on a tidal berth awaiting sea trials (at long last - poster child for availability of spares and limits in dockyard capacity), Defender has had her PIP and is now in test and commissioning stage. Diamond is in the middle of her PIP.
As for the stuff on the carrier group, no-one ever expected the UK CSG to be equivalent to a USN CVBG. It is also true that we are still missing elements of the group - support shipping for one, but also the elongated procurement of F35 and squadron standup has not helped. Remind me whose budget is responsible for that? It's also undeniable that we've managed two six month plus extended deployments, plus other ops closer to home and that will get better as the T45s complete PIP (and the weapons upgrade) as well as the T26/T31 entering service in numbers. Although the latter is dependent on overcoming the appalling productivity of BAES shipyards in particular - which I'm sure will somehow be blamed on "the carriers".