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Old 1st March 2004 | 17:03
  #35 (permalink)  
Flying Lawyer
 
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: London
"Lots of arrogance regarding the quality of ‘ex military’ pilots here - Mr Cubes…
.......... and maybe just a little 'chip on shoulder' Mr Mad Russian?
It's not the first time you've had a dig at ex-Mil pilots.

I suppose it depends upon your definition of an 'ace' but, if you take into account the initial selection procedure and subsequent ruthless weeding out process, you have to be an ace to make it to fast jet pilot - and to stay there. I dare say some are better than others, but it's all relative. You've got to be an ace by any reasonable standards to be a fighter pilot in the first place, and some of the best of the best are 'creamed off' to do tours as QFI's. (They used to be called 'creamers' for that reason - don't know if they still are.)

Since you mention Cubes my name: Andy Cubin was a QFI in the RAF, the RAF's solo Jaguar display pilot and then selected for the Red Arrows. Joining the Arrows doesn't automatically mean you stay. One Team Leader who later achieved extremely high rank was removed from the team before the end of a season - not something which appears (or is made too obvious) in official histories of the Team. In his second year Andy was chosen for the synchro pair and, in his third, made leader of the synchro pair. I'm not neutral - Cubes is a friend - but the facts speak for themselves.
BTW, Andy got his command on an Airbus within just a few years of moving to the airlines - of course, the fact the Airbus has a stick not a yoke probably helped. (I can't see how aerobatic skills are relevant to command qualities, but I'm not qualified to disagree - I mention it only because you mentioned ex-Mil pilots failing command courses in the context of a discussion about spinning instruction.)

"How many ex-military fast jet pilots have been past or present British Aerobatic Champions, if the quality is that good this should be an easy goal to achieve???!!"
Nigel Lamb won the Neil Williams Memorial Trophy presented annually to the Unlimited National Champion several times. Was it 7 or 8 times? Does that count? Again he's a friend, but that doesn't change the facts.

Of course there are excellent aerobatic pilots/instructors from civil flying backgrounds; I learned a great deal from several at the Tiger Club. Pete Kynsey and Tim Barnby, now both Virgin Captains, come to mind immediately, and there were others. I've also been fortunate to have some outstanding civvy helicopter FI's.

Perhaps I've just been lucky but, of all the Mil/ex-Mil FI's I've had (f/w and rotary) in the past 30 years, I've always been impressed and never disappointed - and I still regularly fly with FI's simply because I think it's good practice to be checked more often than the legal minimum. There may be exceptions, but I've never yet encountered a FJ/ex-FJ jockey who wasn't also an outstanding light aircraft pilot and instructor. In contrast, I have had some poor civvy FI's.

If I had to choose between two instructors and knew nothing about them except one had been in a FJ pilot and one entirely civvy, I'd always choose the Mil man. If the civvy had been an aerobatics champion the choice would be more difficult, but I'd probably still go for the Mil man because I've always found the Mil instruction style to be superb. It might turn out to be the wrong choice in that particular instance - as you say there are exceptions - but I've found it a safe bet in most.

Tudor Owen

(Not ex-Mil, unless you count University Air Squadron, only a PPL - and definitely not an 'ace'. )



[Edit]
BTW, Cubes is certainly confident in his abilities as a pilot - I would be too if my abilities had been consistently recognised by others over more than two decades as his have - but he's not arrogant.

Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 1st March 2004 at 19:21.
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