Originally Posted by
a320flapoperator
'Mate', you can hit Caps Lock on 'EXPERIENCED FIRST OFFICER' all you want, but the reality is you are a 32-year-old 737 FO. You do not have an A320 rating. To the company, that means you are a raw financial investment who needs to be trained from scratch on this jet, regardless of what you flew before.
Let’s do a proper reality check on your Ryanair (did I spell it right for you this time?) comparison. Yes, guys drop €30k there. But what you conveniently left out is that the job is only guaranteed after you pass the Type Rating. At Air Astana, you have a job guarantee on Day 1. You get sent to Toulouse for a month for the TR, the airline pays for it entirely, and you are collecting your salary plus roughly €70 a day net in per diems the whole time. That €12.5k is a refundable deposit. It is a retention mechanic for an expat market, not a low-cost carrier cash grab.
You claim you're perfectly fine with being bonded at Wizzair or Jet2 as long as there's no upfront deposit. But let's look at your actual situation. You are currently flying the 737 at a European LCC and throwing applications at anyone who will listen.
Let's call a spade a spade: your real issue isn't the 'principle' of the bond. It’s just that you don't actually have the €12,500 cash to put down. Dressing up an empty bank account as a moral crusade against an airline's 'conditions' is just embarrassing. Especially when you look at the math. The net salary here clears €5,000+ after taxes. You effectively offset the value of that refundable deposit in your first two and a half months. Good luck finding that kind of net income at the European carriers you keep quoting.
Nobody here is a 'defensive entity.' But honestly, seeing how quickly you have a multi-paragraph meltdown over a refundable deposit, which perfectly matches your public crying session over your UPRT training delays. I can only imagine how you handle an actual stressful situation on the flight deck.
Thank you for your inputs Sir, I am sure it will be beneficial for those looking for information here and know about Air Astana and its culture by extension.
But let’s stop a minute here let’s come back to the facts.You asked me to “elaborate” so I did. Maybe should we remind the definition of “elaborate” ? (
Cambridge dictionary: Verb. 1. elaborate - add details, as to an account or idea; clarify the meaning of and discourse in a learned way, usually in writing )
Writing more than two lines after being asked to expand on my position isn’t a “meltdown”. It’s called answering the question that you asked.
On the “raw investment” comment: not having an A320 rating does not erase years of multi-crew jet experience. A type rating is aircraft-specific training. It is not a reset to zero. Operating a 737 in a high-tempo (25 min turnaround ) European LCC environment builds transferable skills SOP discipline, workload management, decision-making under pressure, CRM in real-world ops. Airlines hire cross-type FOs because that experience matters.And believe me you can say whatever you want with Ryanair but their training (high paced) which most of people don't succeed past the type rating due to high pressure is well recognised worldwide. And yes as a cadet the job there is guaranteed based on your performance which is meritocratic and I’m 100% ok with it. But even Ryanair who is a LCC doesn’t request upfront payment for Experienced pilots. So it’s surprising for a flag carrier to do so…
Also, questioning terms and conditions doesn’t make someone unstable or incapable of handling stress on the flight deck coming from the military believe me stress management is not lacking here. If anything, evaluating risk, reading the fine print, and thinking critically before committing financially are exactly the traits you want in a pilot.You know like when you were mentioning in that job interview that you are “detail oriented”
Now, about Air Astana I never disputed the structure.Job from day one? Good.Type rating paid? Good.Salary and per diems during training? Also good. Getting close to home? Holy grail!
As for the “throwing applications at anyone who will listen” comment that’s called career management. Every pilot in Europe and around the world right now is exploring options and opportunities as yourself were and are applying to Fly Dubai, emirates in 2022, Wizz Abu Dhabi... That’s normal in this industry.
My decision wasn’t about whether the deal is “profitable.” It was about capital exposure.
“You make €5k net, so you recover it in 2.5 months” is an income argument.A €12,500 deposit is capital tied up for four years.
Those are two different financial concepts.
When you’ve funded your entire aviation path yourself ratings, living costs, recurrent training you learn to protect liquidity. Not everyone had “papa and mama” money. Some of us worked multiple jobs before aviation to get to the flight deck. Enlisted in the military young went in different operations the money earned have been hardly earned so believe me you would be careful on where you put it.Some of us absorbed every delay and every unexpected cost personally while at the same time handling a family and a house. So yes I am a proud “32 years old FO”!
Which brings me to UPRT. Yes, I was frustrated. And I’d be again I’ll always stand against people who have no integrity and profiting from other people.
If you pay a flight school money on time and they fail to deliver training on time and professionally that delay directly impacts your money that’s not “public crying” That’s holding that school accountable. Especially when the majority of the students in that intake were affected.
Speaking up about that doesn’t make someone unstable. Evaluating financial risk doesn’t make someone broke.
Declining to wire five figures upfront doesn’t make someone incapable under stress.It means I assess risk differently.
You’re comfortable with the bond structure and paying 12,5k upfront That’s fine.
I’m comfortable walking away from a deal that doesn’t align with my financial strategy.
Last, if you are wondering what kind of pilot and FO I am here is for the record
and this is the last transmission thank you anyway for this enriching chat
Kindest regards.
(Sorry from posting on a different account the previous one jumped up)