Originally Posted by
Lonewolf_50
You may refer to 9-11-01. The difference is that rather than sit back and take it, we decided to do something about it.
The results are mixed, to be sure.
Fair enough. The EU spent a lot of the 90's and 00's trying to push back against the idea of an American hegemon, but failed for over 30 years to evolve a coherent defense policy - despite the efforts at becoming something bigger and better.
This isn't just a problem in the teens, it's a decades long problem. Ever since Euro Coprs was ideated in the 90's it has been all noise, little to no action.
And decided to do something about it. Results are decidedly mixed. What that reaction did achieve, though, was to send a message that it's gonna cost you to do that. Some people still try. And a lot of them die.
No, that's not it. It's all a day late and a dollar short. I was quite frustrated at how many strings were attached to stuff (by the US and others) being sent to Ukraine in the first year. Did not make sense to me. At least some of those restrictions are relaxed at this point.
You can't see past the end of your nose.
Without the billions already committed they'd not have had the means to keep fighting.
Also, something you likely failed to account for is how the US backfilled certain nations' equipment when they donated their Soviet era equipment to Ukraine (since that is what Ukraine was most familiar with and had in their order of battle). There's a place where the Visigrad, Baltic, and other previous Bloc folks shone like the sun.
A well done all around.
(And they could receive US kit as a back fill without it getting earmarked as Ukraine aid ... see also what Greece pulled off recently).
Nutty you got on the blame the US bus based on a lack of wit, and you remain there for the same reason.
It's your fault - collectively, all of you in Europe, to include the UK (you only recently left the EU) - that you failed to establish a EUROPEAN security environment.
You evisicerated your own capability to the point that some of you basically can't provide the formations already committed to NATO ... that's been a topic that's very current for the last few months from multiple sources.(See the NATO vs Russia thread as well...)
FFS, even high NATO officials are saying that NATO needs a few YEARS to get back on step.
All of you are at fault. (Credit to the Poles for playing Cassandra, but who would listen?)
I repeat since you seem to not listen to well: you collectively had 30 plus years to do it, you talked about it on and on and on for decades: and you have failed.
On the bright side, it appears that some corrective action is in the offing.
What if Putin's propaganda campaign (which someone in Brussels was barking about last week) impacts EU elections this year?
Are you still going to be a whinging loser and blame the US for your self-made problems?
Knowing you, Nutty, yes you will.
But here's what you Euros could do.
Assume Trump wins. (I don't think he will, but can you afford to plan for something other than worst case?)
Make your plans according to his worst rhetoric coming true.
There's a planning assumption that may get some people off of their butts and produce results.
And if the more likely thing happens (Trump doesn't win) then you are ahead of the game in terms of catching up.
The only thing you omit, and I expect we both know this, is that there is no “you” or “your”.
When you say it’s “your” fault, you are addressing the country of Europe, which doesn’t exist.
Yes, there is a weakness that should have been addressed in defense, that has not been.
Yet once we put aside the woulda coulda shoulda, which eventually we have to, we are left dumped back in the real world as it exists today.
Should the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene be allowed to prevent the US from helping defend their economically largest trading block and closest of allies in terms of values and world view?
You can vote your own conscience on that, but for myself I can’t find it appropriate.