Originally Posted by
605carsten
Too many of you are airline types and dont appreciate the different environment helicopters work in.. same way you cant apply same TEM to bush pilot ops vs Airline.. different skillsets. Most of you button-pushers would be horrified at a normal days flying for an Alaskan bush pilot let alone a heli pilot utilizing what a heli does best.
Also, the IFR environment is a PITA for a helicopter as its mainly setup for planks and their speeds.
regards from somebody who flies in both worlds and found out quickly there is no cross cultural exchange of info from either side to how we can co-exist safely..
I think I stated I was a commercial fixed wing airliner pilot - or a plank flying button pusher in your charming words - cheers - and was politely asking about helicopter operations out of interest, because I don't know about them.
This thread is about a serious fatal helicopter crash, just to remind you. And some months before that there was a similar crash of a television news helicopter in similar circumstances.
Would you prefer that we plank flying button pushers took you and your family on holiday or to visit your inlaws in our airliners by flying below MSA along valleys, because it would be more fun for us pilots ?
For tactical helicopter operations; war, fire, police, air ambulance etc, I can see that well trained and experienced pilots would need to go below MSA in the course of their duties. Ditto heli-skiing and mountain rescue. But it seems odd to me if this is also routinely done by "regular" pilots, on "normal" transport routes even at night - when trees, ridges electricity pylons and transmitter towers for example, are not always lit. Why not give yourself a safety margin ?
MSA is a very basic safety device that commercial fixed wing pilots should not ignore. (I did once years ago in early training in the Sim, because I knew where I was - safely away from high ground, but I got a bollocking for doing it and never did it again, and my misdemeanour probably kept me out of the LHS for longer).
Originally Posted by
EXDAC
I usually lurk here as I'm a plank driver but can't let this one go without comment.
MSA is set to give clearance (1,000 ft) over the highest peak or obstacle in a large area (25 nm radius of a navaid or waypoint). Where there are hills there are often valleys. I enjoy flying in the valleys when the peaks are obscured by cloud. I'm often several thousand feet below MSA when flying in my local area. No emergency, no commercial operation, just flying because I enjoy flying.
To put this in perspective - my base airport is at 1,480 ft and has a charted MSA of 7,800 ft!
Do whatever you want by yourself - as long as you don't crash into my house or my car - but with fare paying passengers, or other commercial operations, I am surprised. Remember I am talking about marginal VFR or night flying. Exciting and good fun, yes I am sure, but seems unnecessarily risky to me in the sort of situation this helicopter crashed in.
I was once sitting in the back of a fixed wing training aircraft, which entered slightly marginal VMC at one point, and the horizon could no longer be seen all around. I became concerned that the student
and his instructor were flying below MSA in the vicinity of a television transmitter mast in the area. I asked them what the local MSA was, and reminded them about the mast, and they immediately climbed to a safe altitude.
.