Originally Posted by
punkalouver
Knowing your departure runway helps a lot. But there can be other situations such as unknowing becoming lost at an airport can lead to an improper runway crossing. Ensuring one properly identifies a runway that they are cleared to cross will prevent most improper crossings.
We visually verify the proper runway that we takeoff from, using markings/signs. If we see that the markings/signs do not match up with the clearance(and the runway we were planning to use), we do not takeoff. The same thing should apply while taxiing. If we see that the runway markings/signs does not match up with what we were cleared to cross, do not cross.
I argee but despite all what has been stated, it didn't work in this case and there are many other examples too. So unless we understand why and use this understanding to take whatever action is needed, it will continue to happen.
I just listened to the audio again and the AA PFs question to JFK TWR after the possible pilot deviation message was: "The last clearance we were given, we were cleared to cross. Is that correct?" He seems to be validating they were cleared to cross. He didn't question which runway they were cleared to cross. I think this is significant as it potentially implies he was still unaware they were in the wrong place. IE he genuinely believed he had crossed the right runway and was seeking Conformation that there were cleared to cross. Based on the way he phrases the question, it implies he was pretty sure they were cleared. IE Question asked in the positive sense...
When the tower replies, without commenting on what the clearance was but did say "We're departing Rwy 4L you were supposed to be departing Rwy 4L... you are currently holding short rwy 31L" Only at this point does it appear to dawn on tha AA PF that something it not right. Or so it would appear from the tone and content of the reply.. "Err.. Roger. AA106 heavy"
The tower controller just stated the facts. Which runway was being used for departure and where AA106 was located. This seems to be a text book response. No judgement was passed.
The other question I and others asked is why didnt they see the Delta Jet already moving on 4L when they looked before crossing? Or did no one on the FD look... or..? This seems to be the last chance of saving the day before the incursion but it didn't. We need to find out why, if at all possible.