PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - JQ35 MEL to DPS U-turn at Derby 27 Dec 22
Old 30th Dec 2022, 19:37
  #45 (permalink)  
Trevor the lover
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Das says
4. Flight plan a/c type submission is not the same paperwork as Indonesian FIR overflight approval.


Since you're a play the man not the ball guy Das - are you sure YOU know what you are talking about. One does not need an overflight approval to land at a foreign port, one needs a landing approval. One needs an overfly permit to overfly or a landing permit if that country is the end of the trip.. Don't mean to be a pedant but you want to call people muppets so it compels me to call you out. Secondly, some countries, such as Singapore and Malaysia, as long as the flight plan is filed within the statuatory period as defined in that country's Jeppesen requirements (usually two hours), then no overfly approval is required. Indonesia does need an overfly permit regardless - I can already hear you saying you knew that and we're talking about Indonesia.

I see no problem with Ushuaia posting that chart. Like you though Das - I don't believe that is the reason. But I'll debate his argument rather than calling him a muppet. Firstly, I don't know how many RPT guys would read the Jepp Charts for requirements rather than accepting the company's plan and reading NOTAMS. Corporate guys tend to look at those plates in their pre trip prep, particularly if the crew themselves do all the trip planning such as overfly permits, landing permits, ground handling etc. Jetstar and other RPTs, should and no doubt would, have this sort of standing information stored in their planning files.

Ush - firstly, if the times posted above are correct then they had a 40 minute buffer. And we all know the FMS system, with the STAR and approach put in, would give a very accurate landing time. Holding or vectors are a different ball game, but you would not likely be turned away for that. So the crew and JQ and anyone on flight radar could see whether they would make it or not.
Secondly, as a corporate driver of many years, I have spent many times on the sat phone back to the CP, or directly with the port itself, negotiating a revision to gain approval. The revision may be to a slot, a runway closure, a curfew, a landing permit, anything............. Only once did negotiation fail for me - fortunately we were on the ground in the middle east at the time - big delay replanning a reroute around the denying country. And I do recall once a German freighter not being allowed through China from Myanmar. Interestingly they were stuck for ideas and got on guard asking other crews for advice. To a man, every local aircraft listening that responded told em to give up, China say "Mayo", China mean "Mayo" (No). Everyone said your only option to get to HK was via Bangkok which could be easily negotiated via radio or phone (at a hefty fee no doubt).
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