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Old 23rd Dec 2021, 11:48
  #27 (permalink)  
Lima Juliet
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,336
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Buster15

Would the F3 have really been able to utilise the significant EJ200 thrust increase from a structural perspective ?
Yes, the fatigue index (FI) problems were induced by running RB199 at medium and high level. You had to constantly load/unload the aircraft to keep some smash on as the SEP was poor. With EJ200 then you should have been able to pull and keep pulling at 7g (depending on fuel weight) and that would only put one count on the fatigue meter - with RB199 then you would probably have more like 20 counts and an over banked turn at that!

Lone Kestrel
Agreed that the F14A had a better instantaneous turn rate due to the lifting-body fuselage of the Tomcat’s widely spaced engines. But when it comes to thrust to weight then the F14A, F4 and F3 are frighteningly close. Also, the F3 was quicker than Tomcat at low level which was what ASR 395 had as one of its goals - chasing down BLACKJACK and BACKFIRE at low level. I used to love chasing down B1 and F111 who thought they could run away! Something that none of the competition for ASR 395 could get close to compared to the F3. But that was part of the problem, BAe very carefully matched F3 to ASR 395 which meant it was rubbish against the likes of FULCRUM and FLANKER when they appeared in the ‘80s and also in dogfights against F14A+/B/D, F15, F16 and F18 on exercises like RED FLAG. However, it was the clever stuff that they did with the F3s avionics that kept it still potent - RADAR upgrades, a fully correlated JTIDS L16 picture, a very fine RHWR, good self protection (chaff, flare and TRD (the first on a fast jet to be operationally deployed) and then the ASRAAM/AMRAAM C. It used to annoy the crap out of our Colonial Cousins when our piece of crap dogfighter would return 4:1 to 7:1 kill ratios on COPE THUNDER, RED FLAG, MAPLE FLAG, etc…

One thing I didn’t mention about Tomcat was the F14D. The AWG 9 was replaced by APG71 - a revised version of F15’s APG70. Now that really was the ultimate Tomcat and with the new engines it could wipe the floor with almost all adversaries in BVR and dogfighting. It also had colossal range, which is not seen in many of today’s aircraft - it could go well past Mach 2 as well, which again many of today’s fighters are unable to do. So the F14D really was the ultimate and the F18F that replaced it sadly doesn’t come near for me for a number of reasons.
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