Bigmouth, yeah sorry it's been a few years, don't keep all the manuals but if you choose not to believe me, that is truly not something I'm going to lose sleep over.. .. .Question. Why is the same job that other people get paid for, suddenly SLAVERY if you don't get paid for it?. .. .Regarding the "young people don't know what they're doing" issue.. Virtually all pilots I fly with at my airline have had a relatively easier (certainly financially) path to flying a big jet. Flight training paid for by the state. Ex-Air Force people. It's incredibly hard nowadays, the aviation training world is not the same it was 10 years ago, at least not in Europe.. .. .The company I flew a batch of hours for is still in existence and doing very well, last flying 150 planes when I checked. . .. .Some seem to think it's just the easy way to buy your way up. Nothing was easy about it. Loading and unloading freight in the blazing desert sun is not easy (still not slavery, the paid captains do the same and I enjoyed it). It was a lot less easy than the airline jobs.. .. .Climbing over the backs of others and stealing other people's jobs is just not applicable.. .. .And please get off your moral highgrounds saying that you're a bad person if you enter one of these programs. If everyone who breaks the speed limit when the cops aren't around had to be banned from this site, there'd be 20 members left.. .So please stop being so hypocritical. Those who have the good jobs, be happy for yourselves, those who are still looking, good luck. If you truly want it, you'll get it.. .. .Let me state that a pilot's capacities have NOTHING to do with whether they enrolled in such a program or not. Many people here imply that if you do that, you're a second rate pilot. . .. .Okay, I've got my egg-shield up, let the criticism flow again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />