Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
Interesting definition. But lets run with it. By your own words, the company hence has also then failed at negotiations.
Correct. Union has failed. Company has failed. Everyone loses from PIA.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
Why do you only ever place the blame with one party?
One party has set expectations at a level that cannot be achieved. But both parties are losers from PIA.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
Do you have a vested interest that you're not disclosing.
No vested interest. How about you? Do you have a vested interest? You have tried to sidestep this question already.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
As always, your comments can be swiftly redirected at the company. They have complicated matters by setting an internal expectation of what it could negotiate and it cannot be achieved.
I think you will find that most in Australia would think that a 3% wage increase is a decent outcome at a time when CPI is 1.7%. Good luck to you if you can do better but its hard to blame JQ for setting expectations at what is a reasonable level compared to CPI.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
What breaks the cycle are 2 parties willing to actually negotiate, not simply the dictation of terms. AFAP is willing to negotiate. The company in no uncertain terms, regardless of your garbage assertions, are not.
Negotiations have to be reasonable otherwise people walk away from them. From what your saying, JQ have walked away. The clear message from JQ is that what your asking for cannot be given. PIA is costly so they have an incentive to negotiate.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
The context here is important. Camel is replying to my point that the company has definitively rejected negotiation and entirely refuses to meet with the AFAP unless they simply agree to their original dictated terms. Camels statement here should not be overlooked for the profound meaning it contains. It is managements belief that ANY negotiation on the part of AFAP is an un-achievable false expectation. That the pilot body should believe that the company terms are the only terms that will ever be offered, and that it is futile to even attempt negotiation.
You certainly have a challenge on your hands. Maybe you need to change your negotiators to get the other party back to the table. Best of luck with your current strategy.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
Oh the $24 million dollar man has thrown some crumbs from his table that leave us firmly at the bottom of the pay table, whilst asking us to do even more work, take on more responsibility and experience a pay cut through the Jeppesen Optimizer that would entirely nullify this 3% anyway. I can't believe the pilots aren't lining up to thank him.
Your not the bottom of the pay table at all. Your highly paid professionals near the top of the PAYG pay table - roughly in the top 5%-10% of PAYG earners. This is why you will get little sympathy from Joe Public.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
You lot aren't subject to this imaginary 3% rule, and you're directly benchmarked against your peers for salary review. In doing so, you've paid yourselves far in excess of the market averages. Yet you have the gall to complain when we seek to do the same, when we only ask to meet the market average, let alone exceed it.
Its called enterprise bargaining. If you want a different system then give up all the various conditions of your enterprise bargaining agreement and go on an individual employment contract. You are in an enterprise bargaining system.
As per above, this has nothing to do with me.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
Same to you kiddo. Hows those January bookings looking again?
As per above, has no impact on me.
But hows your job security looking if the forward bookings do decline? Is that a good thing for your job security and that of your fellow JQ employees?
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
To those reading, Camel has provided valuable insight into the QF management mindset, and the complete contempt it holds for the JQ pilot body. There is, and has never been a good faith attempt to reach an agreement. Instead simply arrogance that they can bully and insult us into submission, whilst attributing any delay in the agreement entirely as the fault of the pilot body. They speak out the side of their mouths as they proclaim they're motivated to negotiate an agreement, whilst arbitrarily setting bounds that apply only to us, and not to them. There is no negotiation, only capitulation in their eyes.
I am not QF management. I do not have any contempt for anyone (not even the bottom feeding scavenger). I am just expressing a different opinion to yours that you dont like so you are trying to shout me down. Anyone who has a contrary opinion on this topic is just shouted down.
It is ok to have different opinions.
Originally Posted by
Paddleboat
This is why PIA was undertaken before an agreement presented. Nothing can be achieved until its made clear to the company that negotiations cannot be entered into until they are actually willing to negotiate.
Soften them up first with a few punches - is that your strategy? Looks like that is working very well. LOL.