Originally Posted by
CamelSquadron
No deal has been done so as it currently stands AFAP has failed at the negotiations.
Interesting definition. But lets run with it. By your own words, the company hence has also then failed at negotiations. Why do you only ever place the blame with one party? Do you have a vested interest that you're not disclosing?
Originally Posted by
CamelSquadron
It appears to have complicated matters by setting the expectations of what it could negotiate at a level that cannot be achieved. Why are you so sensitive about this point? Are you one of the negotiators?
As always, your comments can be swiftly redirected at the company. They have complicated matters by setting an internal expectation of what it could negotiate and it cannot be achieved. Why are you so sensitive about this point? Are you one of the company negotiators?
We could go around in circles like this endlessly. What breaks the cycle are 2 parties willing to actually negotiate, not simply the dictation of terms. AFAP is willing to negotiate. The company in no uncertain terms, regardless of your garbage assertions, are not.
Originally Posted by CamelSquaron
Again sounds very much like someone has complicated matters by setting the expectations of what could be negotiated at a level that cannot be achieved.
The context here is important. Camel is replying to my point that the company has definitively rejected negotiation and entirely refuses to meet with the AFAP unless they simply agree to their original dictated terms. Camels statement here should not be overlooked for the profound meaning it contains. It is managements belief that ANY negotiation on the part of AFAP is an un-achievable false expectation. That the pilot body should believe that the company terms are the only terms that will ever be offered, and that it is futile to even attempt negotiation.
It is the very definition of bad faith negotiation, and the exact reason that AFAP sought PIA before an offer was even on the table.
Originally Posted by CamelSquaron
3% is already on the table at a time when CPI is 1.7%. Its not like they have offered nothing.
Oh the $24 million dollar man has thrown some crumbs from his table that leave us firmly at the bottom of the pay table, whilst asking us to do even more work, take on more responsibility and experience a pay cut through the Jeppesen Optimizer that would entirely nullify this 3% anyway. I can't believe the pilots aren't lining up to thank him.
Originally Posted by CamelSquaron
There is no rebuttal to this argument. It is fact. If one group gets 7.5% then everyone else will be asking for 7.5%.
Here is where its getting silly. You don't get to make sweeping assertions about what you allege are 'facts'. There is a rebuttal to that argument, its been made and you've presented absolutely no evidence to prove otherwise. Evidence of this is the fact that in your own shareholder information it is stated executive remuneration is bench-marked against peers and adjusted accordingly. You lot aren't subject to this imaginary 3% rule, and you're directly benchmarked against your peers for salary review. In doing so, you've paid yourselves far in excess of the market averages. Yet you have the gall to complain when we seek to do the same, when we only ask to meet the market average, let alone exceed it.
Paddleboat : You don't get to pick and choose which precedents suit you.
CamelSquadron : Exactly, listen to your own advice here.
Exactly? Exactly for whom? Given that I have proven beyond question that this is precisely what you lot are doing, what on earth leg do you think you're standing on right now? With this EBA JQ pilots are being asked to work more than ever before, take on a new operation, further responsibility and a new aircraft type. At the same time, they're being asked in real terms to be doing it for an effective pay cut (due reduction in flying density), and remaining firmly at the bottom of the pay table whilst their peers (you know, the people your salary is benchmarked against) disappear into the distance, working far less. And the arrogance to assert that we're the ones operating in bad faith. Its truly breathtaking.
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
Good luck.
Same to you kiddo. Hows those January bookings looking again?
To those reading, Camel has provided valuable insight into the QF management mindset, and the complete contempt it holds for the JQ pilot body. There is, and has never been a good faith attempt to reach an agreement. Instead simply arrogance that they can bully and insult us into submission, whilst attributing any delay in the agreement entirely as the fault of the pilot body. They speak out the side of their mouths as they proclaim they're motivated to negotiate an agreement, whilst arbitrarily setting bounds that apply only to us, and not to them. There is no negotiation, only capitulation in their eyes.
This is why PIA was undertaken before an agreement presented. Nothing can be achieved until its made clear to the company that negotiations cannot be entered into until they are actually willing to negotiate.