Absolutely no argument from me, the difference being the Qantas Group is making money.......... where as the Virgin group! And by the way I don't think that pilot costs are the make and break of a profit but I would think QF management would argue that ALL virgin costs are too high and Qantas can't or won't match them. I think it only becomes the 'market rate' when the business is viable or QF is forced to raise Jetstars terms and conditions to retain pilots as they are all leaving for Virgin.