Originally Posted by
jurassicjockey
"Standard pilot training for weather avoidance". How do you account for the variations in radar equipment and what they show. Experience is a huge factor as well. Reading a radar display has a lot of subleties.
Maybe lets start with some standardized atc around the world. If the SID is runway heading, and you require a 90 degree turn off of that through an area of weather, maybe a heads up through the tower to your departures. We're not mind readers, and when you point us at an area of weather with no advance warning, then a cautious man should hesitate. Maybe the previous 5 went through and regretted it. I know I've done that in the past. Lived to tell the tale.
Yelling won't fix your mistakes, and creates an unsafe scenario.
Shamrock stated they were familiar with NYC flying. The departure off 22R for transatlantic flights is always runway heading with tower followed by a left turn east almost as soon as you switch departure. You can’t turn right or continue straight because of both departure flows from LGA and 31LeftKE departures which make a hard left to avoid LGA. If I can’t turn left due to weather I inform tower before accepting a TO clearance. The weather overlay seems to show no weather issues with a left turn and flights before and after had no issues. North of LGA and JFK was getting hammered which would make the southern area extremely busy airspace. I doubt the vectors were for spite and they probably had to suspend departures from 31L or LGA depending on configuration. NYC atc has very good weather overlays and they discontinue departures quickly when weather blocks a route. They also provide calls as to WX intensity ahead on a routine baises. They use terminology level 1 through 6 precipitation.
You can make some inference from Delta 191 at DFW but it’s slight at best. One was a aircraft in approach configuration at low altitude descending at minimum speed and the other was a clean aircraft climbing at a much higher altitude and speed. From a safety standpoint a apples to oranges situation.