Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes

[Juan Tugoh]

You are highly unlikely to garner support by taking cheap shots at those whose support you would like.

So apart from coming on this forum to vent your spleen, what is your purpose in being here being rude?

It certainly does not demonstrate the worthiness of your cause or present us with any reasons to support you.

[Skyrider01]

I'm not asigna for support. I'm just pointing out that BALPA pilots don't honour their agreements and the fact than Iberia was profitable eleven years in a row before "the merger". I also talk about the fact that Iberia has money and British Airways has debts. More debts that it will ever be able to pay. BAW owes far more money than it's worth.

[Juan Tugoh]

Please detail the exact agreements that are not being honoured by BALPA pilots, or do you mean BA pilots, surely Easyjet pilots in BALPA are not the target of your ire.

[Charlie Pop]

You forgot to mention the two years before the merger when Iberia was losing money. You also forgot to mention those little old ladies in Spain being evicted from their homes with the help of firemen and how that is all the fault of the British too. Yep, definitely all the fault of those nasty British pirates. Nothing to do with the Spanish economy being in the toilet, no sir.

[cldrvr]

I'm not asigna for support. I'm just pointing out that BALPA pilots don't
honour their agreements and the fact than Iberia was profitable eleven years in
a row before "the merger". I also talk about the fact that Iberia has money and
British Airways has debts. More debts that it will ever be able to pay. BAW owes
far more money than it's worth.

You really should do your homework and not just come in here repeating union drivel in order to pick a fight, one you will never win in here.

Out of the entire fleet at IB (including subsidiaries), you guys only own 9 of your airframes out of 112 in service as of 2011, BA however owns 223 of their airframes out of 256. You guys have no assets, no aircraft, a mountain of debt, no cash and thanks to you lot, no future either.

You guys keep on striking without any reasonable position of negotiation and you won't have an airline left to call home in a few months. BA and Vueling will take over all your slots and you guys can join the millions of other Spaniards in the dole queue

[bex88]

I think everyone in BA sympathise with how hard it must be for IB crews right now. Believe me I have been in the same position in the very recent past. I am not sure what the agreement between BALPA and SELPA is but as a member of the former I certainly have not been informed. I fail to see how strike action will help the cause. Personally I will cross any picket line to go and do my job and protect it. BALPA are sometimes accused of being in the companies hands but no one wants a war and compromise is required on both sides. Maybe my view is to simplistic and I certainly won't know all the facts, but what I do know is its a crap situation and the current course won't work.

[cldrvr]

Ah another union muppet, can't come up with facts so has to resolve to banalities.

[Watersidewonker]

Out of the entire fleet at IB (including subsidiaries), you guys only own 9 of your airframes out of 112 in service as of 2011, BA however owns 223 of their airframes out of 256. You guys have no assets, no aircraft, a mountain of debt, no cash and thanks to you lot, no future either.

Mmmm......does make me wonder why the merger was so attractive then?

[Wirbelsturm]

If it wasn't for Ib, Ba would have the same debt they had before the merger.

Hmmm, a little thin on the 'factual' ground that one.

BA's debt was based within it's pension deficit. The restructuring of the pension schemes, abolition of the final salary pensions scheme and readjustment of the employee contribution and employer contributions were all agreed with the pensions ombudsman well before IB came on the scene.

Nothing to do with IB money that IB seems perfectly adequately capable of throwing to the wind without any help.

IB made small profits in the biggest boom era know in recent history. Once the pinch was felt it has dropped rapidly into the red. It will take hard work and painful adjustments to change a flawed business model.

[Wirbelsturm]

Mmmm......does make me wonder why the merger was so attractive then?

I'll spell it out for you Wonker, in simple words, just for you.

Route access to South America/Africa. A business model that, after restructuring, has the potential to make money. Plenty of space at Madrid. The two companies route plans have certain synergies that make good potential for profitable returns.

It's the thorny process of getting the restructuring that takes time. Killing the company won't improve anyone's working practices.

[cldrvr]

Mmmm......does make me wonder why the merger was so attractive then?

Because it has great potential, once IB restructures, modernises and gets rid of the current employment culture and their unprofitable routes it can really add value to the merger.

Spain is a great market for a well run airline, couple that with the SA destinations that BA was weak in and you got a sum that can be more profitable than the parts alone. Plus the risk of someone else getting hold of it and competing with BA were just too great not to merge.

[Watersidewonker]

Here's message from The General Secretary of Unite the Union to all our Spanish colleagues:

UNITE THE UNION, MENSAJE DE APOYO A SINDICATOS DE ESPAÑA Y TRABAJADORES DE IBERIA

UNITE the Union trabaja en estrecha colaboración con sus colegas de Iberia, en su lucha para resistir las tácticas hostiles y agresivas de International Airline Group (IAG) en reducir un 19% del personal.

En un momento cuando la economía de España continúa en serias dificultades con una tasa de desempleo que alcanza más del 26% debido a medidas sostenidas de austeridad, esto es visto como una oportunidad despiadada por parte de IAG para promover enérgicamente planes de reestructuración innecesarios que llevarán a 3.800 trabajadores a perder sus empleos.

Como fuera experimentado por los trabajadores de British Airways en el año 2010, IAG ha adoptado una estrategia similar e inflexible de negociaciones en un intento por enfrentar a los sindicatos de España y despedir a miles de trabajadores.

La filial más grande de UNITE the Union, BASSA, ya ha enviado mensajes de apoyo a sus compañeros en Iberia y trabajará táctica y colectivamente con ellos para resistir estos despidos injustos e innecesarios.



Len McCluskey
Secretario General

AND A LITTLE PAELLA, COURTESY OF UNITE?

Unite is organising a one hour symbolic demonstration outside the IAG building to show our support for the striking Iberia staff.
It will be a peaceful and dignified show of support for fellow working people.
The date is 6th March, between 1300 – 1400. We are asking people to assemble at Unite’s Bath Road offices. Unite House, 99 New Road, Harlington, Middx UB3 5BQ. Unfortunately there is no free parking, you can park at the Marriott Hotel (next door to Unite House)and pay £4.80 for 2 hours or alternatively use the public transport which is free around the airport.
It may be cold and miserable here in England but we have organised a little bit of Spanish sunshine in the form of a giant paella to feed any hungry people that join us!
Given the significance of the struggle by our fellow workers – who are not just cabin crew but are from across all areas of Iberia – the responsibility does not solely rest with cabin crew or even just BASSA to support this. Could we therefore please ask that you give up an hour of your time to show you care, as well as your support in publicising and encouraging people from across Unite and the airport to attend; it’s just one hour out of people’s lives to support others.
A show of support by their colleagues in BA can only help lift the spirits of the Iberia workers on strike. We received massive support from unions across the world, its time to repay them.
All will be most welcome, including any pilots who feel a little less “neutral” than the union that represents them.

[Wirbelsturm]

Brilliant, that'll do the trick.

Len McClusky once again leading the blind into obscurity. Will Derek Hatton be on hand as well?

A bit stereotypical offering up Paella isn't it?

[Aporrizaje]

Ok,things are getting a bit weird here.
First of all let's remember that what's posted here are individual opinions and do not necessarily reflect SEPLA's or BALPA's .
As far as i know relations between said unions are fine,and i'd rather they stayed that way.We have plenty of enemys and few allies as it is.
BALPA has not breached any agreement with SEPLA,period.
When i thanked BASSA for their support i wasn't trying to point fingers at BALPA or meddle in the can of worms that BALPA/BASSA relationship appears to be.Not my war...
We might really need BALPA's goodwill in the near future,so apologies if anybody felt offended.
As for the merger's goal,the pensions deficit etc...we will know soon enough who's right or wrong.Things are moving quickly.
As a parting shot:
-IAG's proposal to SEPLA includes free growth to IBxpress(without IB pilots),315 IB pilots fired,23% initial cut to those who stay(progressing to a lot more) and no compromise as to future plans.
-To sum it up:
They fire 315 pilots now(newest).Another 300 retire in the next couple years.
Meanwhile Ibxpress/Vueling grow (SH and LH too...).And the remaining IB pilots can be fired cheaply with the new Reforma Laboral(20 days per year ,max 365 days of your LAST year income).
Slap an IB sticker on those Ibxpress/Vueling airplanes and it's game,set and match for the slick suit guys.
We are not just talking when we say we will fight to the end,got nothing to lose really.
I'm out of this thread,thanks to all that wish us well and same to you!.

[Juan Tugoh]

Aporrizaje, your words are well spoken with regard to SEPLA and BALPA.

[dlcmdrx]

Aporrizaje is right, but not because of what he said about Balpa, in any case discussing anything here, specially with individuals like wilberstrum and cldvr is a waste of time. I don't even work for Iberia or affiliated to any of its unions, but obviously upset what the brits are gonna do with my national career. I wonder if they really believe the crap that comes out of their mouth or they are paid to do it.

Watch tomorrow for a profit of 270 mill, exactly the same superavit Ib had before the merger. Way to insult everyone, specially since two days ago the management doll in charge of cooking the books for IAg and IB has been dismissed.

Note to the mods, if you are gonna censorship my messages the least you could do is also delete the ones that quote me.

[dlcmdrx]

why do you want to make an airline look valuable when you only want to downsize it to take over its routes, its profits and gain market access to a business market you are not established in? ( SA )


In any case this is the truth, Ib profits until the merger:



After 2008 losses, conveniently forced, either cooking books or just cutting routes or altering them to make them unprofitable.
Lets remember that it was always an objective of BA to be on the side of the 55%, not the 45%, therefore appearing as the stronger counterpart was necessary to have the upper hand in every major management decision.

[Watersidewonker]

Are you also suggesting that BA caused the worldwide financial crisis so that IB would lose money? BA made a profit, IB is far from it.

BA made record profits in 2008-2009 reaching the 10% profit margin. Then funnily enough the 'fight for survival' took a grip, whilst the company fought the cabin crew we made record losses - we were in intensive care. Then a miracle happened, as soon as ffs was over we started making profits and we all got 3 weeks pay - we're now making considerable profits.
Come on Wirby et al, the city was briefed on the plan before ffs was announced.
Have you seen a company's share price when they announce to the city a mild profit warning, never mind 'we're about to go bust'
Then the biggest laugh of all was in April 2010, after the first 3 days of IA in the March and the ash cloud arrived, ww appears on TV to tell the world 'we are the most financially secure airline in Europe'.
It's insulting to anyone with half a brain - and Wirby don't say it's half more than I've got!!!

[Hand Solo]

BA made record profits in 2008-2009 reaching the 10% profit margin

Oooh, so near, and yet, so far! The 10% margin was in the financial year April 07 -08.

hen funnily enough the 'fight for survival' took a grip, whilst the company fought the cabin crew we made record losses - we were in intensive care

What you mean after Lehmans went bust in September 2008? When the banks (amongst our very biggest and best customers) went into meltdown and the world financial system teetered on the brink of catastrophe? Did you mean then?

Then a miracle happened, as soon as ffs was over we started making profits and we all got 3 weeks pay - we're now making considerable profits.

Yeah funny that isn't it? A company embarks on a huge cost-cutting and streamlining program, squeezing its staff and suppliers until the pips squeak, then turns a profit. That's the whole point of these programs, isn't it? Or do you think the company exists to serve you, the employee?

Come on Wirby et al, the city was briefed on the plan before ffs was announced.

I'm sure they were. They often are, it's standard business practice and probably helped secure buy-in from the companys major investors. Why do you think staff should be informed of the plans before shareholders?

Have you seen a company's share price when they announce to the city a mild profit warning, never mind 'we're about to go bust'

That rather depends on whether the profit warning was already priced in. As it happened BA's share price tanked down to about 115p. I made a tidy sum buying low then selling out about 180p a couple of years later thank you very much.

Then the biggest laugh of all was in April 2010, after the first 3 days of IA in the March and the ash cloud arrived, ww appears on TV to tell the world 'we are the most financially secure airline in Europe'.

The IA was insignificant, it cost less than a typical winters snow disruption. The ash cloud cost lots of revenue, but with no fuel costs, navigation charges, landing fees etc the operating costs were slashed. With financial commitments from the major banks and shareholders and a sound business plan BA was looking a lot more secure than it was in Q4 2008, certainly secure enough to take on BASSA and their tantrums.

It's insulting to anyone with half a brain

Your Duncanomics is an insult to anyone with half a brain!

[Watersidewonker]

The IA was insignificant, it cost less than a typical winters snow disruption

My God, nearly £200 million each year for snow disruption, WOW! Or is this another fib: BBC News - British Airways reports £164m loss

But the greatest impact on BA was caused by industrial action taken by staff.
BA cabin crew who are members of the Unite union have gone on strike for a total of 22 days so far this year, including 15 in the reported quarter.
The BBC's employment correspondent Martin Shankleman said the 15 days of strikes in May and June had cost the airline £142m.
That was on top of the losses incurred for the seven days of strikes in March, which BA had previously said cost between £6m and £7m a day.
That puts the overall costs of the strikes so far at between £184m and £191m.

Bless HS, next you'll be telling us you fell for the psychological con trick of working for a month without remuneration.....that would be the biggest laugh!

As it happened BA's share price tanked down to about 115p

BA's share price remained steady at approx £2-£2.20 during the ffs, then rose to £3 on IB merger. It was after the merger in September 11 that it hit £1.26