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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.


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Old 28th Jan 2012, 09:33   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: FL02
Posts: 52
EZY Cadet Contracts

Hi All,

Iím stuck in the perpetual loop of FTO research and have been having a gander at CTCís website over the past week. Some friends of friends have been there and seem convinced that of all the integrated options, it is the best; the main contributor to which is their placement record with Easyjet. To the unassuming wannabe there are two routes if you really have your heart set on Easyjet. Going through CTC and Flexicrew or OAA and Parc.

Going from out of date information on ppjn and previous posts on PPRuNe, Flexicrew pilots spend 8 months line training with a possible offer of a temporary contract thereafter for whatever length of time. I donít have much information on Parc. I thought it best to ask those better informed and on the ground about a few of these issues?

Are Flexicrew FOs any better off than Parc FOs or vice-versa?
Where are cadets placed, and, if the answer is continental Europe, are there opportunities to move to any UK bases?
Are there any thresholds for the offering of a permanent contract and are they only available at certain bases?

Thanks in advance.
skyways1452 is offline   Reply
Old 28th Jan 2012, 10:19   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
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only 1 criteria for either, can you bend over and touch your toes?
macdo is offline   Reply
Old 28th Jan 2012, 11:09   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Also they want to know if you like your raping, sorry, shafting with or without lube. The correct answer is no. More company person like. Yes implies you could be partial to union membership and finally feel you were taken advantage of in your delicate self.
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Old 28th Jan 2012, 11:28   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
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I'd ask again in a week or so; a lot will change if the pay deal goes through.
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 17:50   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europa
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Devil Wow!

"Worst case scenario you would have a discounted 320 type rating with around 500 hours"

Wow! So i spend £120k with CTC and get to fly passengers for next to nothing before being let go to fend for myself and pay off those loans! Brilliant! Where do I sign?!!

Oh, hang on I heard another UK LoCo offering B737 rating and a full time job - 3 year reducing bond (only pay if I leave early), pay £22k under training and £43k on line plus flight pay....... and they take all backgrounds including cadets, ex mil, GA, biz jet pilots, other airlines, turbo prop pilots.....

Who would have thought it possible!
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 21:30   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: FL02
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Angel: £120k is a bit unfair and exaggerated at best. Including insurance and living expenses, the CTC Integrated cost is around £85,000 which is on par with OAA and FTE. £93,000 with type rating, fair enough, but surely most operators would want more than £8,000 for this anyways?

The UK LoCo you speak of sounds very appealing, although without the name I cannot research it! Also, the fact that they take on all kinds of backgrounds is of no use to an ab-initio cadet and if anything would reduce my chances no? If it's who I think you're talking about then yes, it would be great situation to be in. But I dare say that this company would be only be taking in a handful of positions at a time compared to other operators and as such you'd have to be very very lucky to be available when they are hiring.

When I say worst case scenario, this is relatively speaking.. Better to be out there with hours on type rather than nothing at all surely?

I appreciate you're all warning of the situation the industry but I'm only trying to inform myself so I can make the best of this situation should I decide to start training this year. As such, I'm only trying to keep the thread on topic with the questions I asked which are still unanswered.
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 21:42   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eu
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Word on the street is that Easyjet have already told CTC they have no work for 2 of their courses this year beyond the 8 month 'training' period.
Thad Jarvis is offline   Reply
Old 30th Jan 2012, 21:59   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Do Flexicrew fly much in the winter months? I heard an average take home figure for an EZY FO on flexicrew is circ £4k... surely not in winter on pay by hour.
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Old 30th Jan 2012, 22:49   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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My average take home over the whole year is £2400 per month (but then £1250 goes on my loan.) Pay will go up 20% when you hit 1500 hours. I've had pretty low hours this last year compared to my colleagues at other bases so obviously those that are getting more work are taking home more. £4000 is slightly unrealistic I think before 1500 hours but possible after 1500 hours in the summer months. I've never seen that kind of pay packet...
Loan repayments are much higher than initially planned because I had to defer payments for about a year. So you could reckon on paying less than that if you are feeling lucky/optimistic. However, I've heard similar rumours about the latest batch of CTC trainees not being held after this coming summer ends on so things are looking slightly pessimistic at the moment.
Parc guys have to pay for their type ratings up front which is demanding to say the least. But the cost is tax deductible because you set up your own company. As a result of paying more up front the Parc guys have a slightly better deal in terms of hourly rate but there's only about £2 per hour in it.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 00:02   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Germany
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Hi guys,

No offence but I'm getting a little bit tired of all the b*llshit about the contracts.

My situation:

- Parc contract
- Relatively quiet base
- Experience level (i.e. pay scale): less than 500 EZY factored hours

Initially I had to pay around GBP 35.000,- for the type rating but I got the VAT back as I am 'self employed'. So in the end the TR cost 29.787,-

This is a business expense and I'm spreading it over an eleven month period so the amount of tax I have to pay is virtually zero.

So the facts about my earnings:

Average take home pay: GBP 3295,-
Highest: GBP 4187,-
Lowest: GBP 1408,- (This was November as it is the quietest month and I had one week of leave)

As the hours are quite low during the winter months there is something like a winter hours protection scheme. What this means is that you get 200 hours paid no matter how many you actually fly from the 1st of November until 30th of April.

I'd like to point out that I don't want to make it look like its all nice and that there are no negative sides! (Think of no pension, no duty pay, no real job security, etc.)

Its just that I'm now finally able to make hours, pay off my debt and EZY has made the highest profit ever in 2011 where a lot of other companies only get deeper into problems. This together with the intention of employing 300 flexi crew on permanent contracts in 2012 gives me a good feeling about the future and I think that's something useful in these times!
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 01:09   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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''Flexicrew pilots spend 8 months line training with a possible offer of a temporary contract thereafter for whatever length of time.''

Is anyone else despairing at how low our industry has sunk?
Dan Winterland is offline   Reply
Old 31st Jan 2012, 01:55   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
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No us

That sounds a lot more than several close friends of mine who fly more than that. I wonder if this is due to playing with the tax being 'self employed'.

I would be cautious of the self employed issue. According to HMRC you aren't. Unless you fly for others on your days away from EZY. The way things are I'd be keeping a stash in case the tax man comes knocking.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 06:57   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 178
EZY has made the highest profit ever in 2011 !!!

Yet are still offering these appalling contracts ..........The management and accountants must be laughing all the way to their ever increasing bank balance!!!

As Dan Winterland says it is just utterly despairing how low our industry has sunk!
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 07:20   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 992
Novus,

You should be subject to IR35.

Read: HM Revenue & Customs:

I think you'll be able to answer YES to most of those questions. If I were you, I'd keep a chunk of your past earnings, since the tax man can go back 7 years to claim what he thinks he's due.

You also need to be careful of VAT rules. Supplying services in excess of the VAT threshold will mean you'll be subject to that too.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 07:43   #15 (permalink)
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This is the inevitable, well signposted and argued at the time, result of people self sponsoring >£100k training places.

Despite the credit crunch. In contrast to the recession. Regardless of the current contracts. CTC and Oxford have queues around the block.

The market is telling us something. The market is telling us that the price of First Officers has further to fall. Until that queue gets shorter this is what will happen. Dragging us all down with it.

The queue is not getting shorter. I thought it would. I really did. But I won't lie.


WWW
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 08:08   #16 (permalink)
Robert G Mugabe
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WWW

As Martin Luther King said " I had a dream "

I have no sympathy for anyone who signs up for these pipe dreams.

In fact I fly with people who are so desperate to fly that they report when sick. Not any more. I shall offload them on report if I consider them unfit to fly.

A crew member shall not perform duties on an aeroplane if applicable medical requirements are not fulfilled, or if he/she is in any doubt of being able to accomplish his/her assigned duties.Many medications may have adverse effects on the nervous system, which may be more marked in flight than on the ground. As a general rule, if a crew member finds it necessary to take, or has been prescribed some form of medication, his fitness to fly must be suspect, and he should seek medical advice before continuing with flying duties.

Many drugs lower operational efficiency and impair judgement and reaction time. Crew members should be aware that many drugs, their dosage and use, while suitable for family members and passengers may be unsuitable for crew. Commonly prescribed drugs in the following classes may have prolonged effects on performance:
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 09:00   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: LGW
Posts: 178
Just to add my little bit to the takehome pay debate. LGW FO. Loan repayments £1142 p/m. Bills for those who are not use to paying them are around £600, broken down as follows (sharing with gf - numbers are my half):

Rent: 400
Council Tax: 45
Gas/Electric: 21
Internet/Phone: 10
TV Licence: 6
Contents Ins: 4.50
Water bill: 4

The rest are my sole costs:
Car Insurance: 45
Loss of licence ins: 22
Mobile: 11
BALPA: 10
Life ins: 5
Credit card repayment and other loan: 22

Other costs you have each year -
Road tax: 240
Medical: 100-150
Breadown: 35

The following is NET takehome pay (net is after tax/NI/student loan deductions) followed by the amount left each month after taking away loan repayment and £600 for bills (-£1800). This excludes food and petrol.

£2,710.00 £910.00
£2,626.00 £826.00
£2,116.06 £316.06
£2,864.50 £1,064.50
£2,947.27 £1,147.27
£2,422.66 £622.66
£3,071.71 £1,271.71
£2,063.57 £263.57
£2,471.77 £671.77

As you can see, not one month did I take home £4000 as someone claimed earlier - even in peak summer working 100 hours over the month. The £3071.71 was a month where I had a crap load of holiday to take too.

I'm expecting the next two months to be around the £2000 mark as near the last 2 months shown. £263 after all bills still has to pay for food and petrol, and that was also Christmas so quite difficult to buy presents.

You may think £1000 expendable income is a lot - it's not. My car needs repairs, 3 times last year -£600, £400 and £600 again inc MOT. Can't afford a new one so those repairs will run into next year. I find the months I get £600 expendable just enough to live and save a little bit in case of emergency - such as the car repairs. The months I get £300 or £200 I have to use that spare I've saved to live off.

Do not think this is easy - it may look a lot on paper but it soon disappears. I spend 2 or 3 hours a week looking through my excel spreadsheet of direct debits to see how I can reduce them - there's not movement on anything now so I'm stuck - and I've mananged to get my expenditures as low as possible.

My loan was £65k plus £5k for living expenses. With interest rates rising again in a couple of years and a loan of £85+ (probably nearer £100k) how are you going to pay off your loan? You need to really think about the first 3 or 4 years of your career when you get online - not the present and not if you get a command. What happens if you get laid off again after the 8 months?

I signed up when cadets were going straight into the RHS with a perm contract - there is absolutely NO WAY I would sign up for any FTO given the current climate.

I know I'll be ignored but don't say you weren't warned.

edited to add: don't forget you also have to pay for your own uniform, there is NO pension, and no pay if you're sick. You do get holiday pay (ctc fleixcrew anyway)
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 09:15   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Age: 26
Posts: 233
I concur with HPBleed's assessment of take home pay, I'm flexicrew through CTC and the best month I ever had was £3000 net. Worse was £2000, which luckily I had taken 7 days of leave (circa £800 net). So for the flying duties that month I earnt £1200 after tax.

The parc situation is quite different as first year figures are skewed by paying very little tax on the type rating. Second year figures will be more comparable. Parc do get a little more per hour, but do not attract any holiday pay. As has been pointed out, uniform, medicals, loss of license and pension are all left down to you... So whilst the headline figures may look acceptable in summer, they are certainly not on par with the permanent f/o population. Do not be tricked into thinking they are.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 09:22   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 462
WWW, Dan 98 & Dane Winterland

I don't think the bottom is anywhere near being reached unfortunately.

The desperate (only by their own actions) FO's who got into this sh1t, will be only too happy to accept pathetically low Command pay as well inside easyJet if the company attempts to ram it through in such a fashion.

For one naive Monkey to mention his pay as £2000 a month, whilst marvelling at easy's record profits makes me realise how some people just have blinkers on.

Record profits being driven by record low salaries, as well as decent sales is what the 1/2 year results should have said.

They don't report that to the Stock Exchange though. Doesn't read quite so well in a trading statement.
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Old 31st Jan 2012, 09:27   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: LGW
Posts: 178
Ah but Narrow Runway, they've made profit this year and the future looks bright so it's all ok and they'll soon start treating us properly again!

Not.

The more profit they make, the worse they'll treat us, because they realise that it doesn't matter how poorly they treat us, we still do SE taxi, flap 3 etc. The more costs management cut the higher their bonuses - so Novus - wipe that smug grin off your face and look forward to your shafting.
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