Ethiopean airlines pilot jobs - Warning
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Ethiopean airlines pilot jobs - Warning
This is a warning to all pilots thinking about employment with Ethiopian Airlines.
Ethiopian Airlines is offering what appears to be a great commutable contract. For expatriate pilots from all over the world the deal is for B777, B767, B757, B737 & MD11 crews paying $7000 per month, working 20 days on and 10 days off OR 24 days on and 14 days off, plus $60 per day expense allowance.
Although the money isn’t the best deal about, the commuting roster makes up for that and has proved a real plus in the past , on the face of it, a very attractive deal for many. However, the rules have changed and I believe that corruption has infiltrated what was a great deal.
The first thing anyone interested in this job needs to know is that you won’t get paid. The new deal is that you don’t get paid until you finish your ‘Training’. A process that used to take anything between two and four weeks, now takes anything up to three months!! You see the longer they can keep you in the training program, the longer they don’t have to pay you.
After finishing the simulator and classroom work you will go into line training. Since the new rules were invented, no-one has finished the line training. Every excuse is made to give you another sector and now it has become a requirement to line check pilots on every route. In short they will use you as a pilot on a commercial flight with fair paying passengers and not have to pay you a bean, until you eventually wake up to find the handle on your back and’ MUG’ across your brow! As no doubt someone is creaming off your pay for their own wallet!
OK, I have no proof that corruption is behind this, but the clues are there. It’s not every office you walk into these days that has an ‘Anti-Corruption Suggestion Box’ taking pride of place in the entrance to the office block.
They pay for the Hotel for the first 20 days and then you are on your own. The per-diem payments $60 a day are supposed to help you with your living expenses after that, particularly as you are not going to get paid during training which can take up to three months. Don’t be fooled by this promise either, I never received a penny in per-diems and faced with the prospect of being destitute in Addis Ababa, I had to leave, a total waste of time!
The fact is that the Ethiopian People are nice people, or maybe that’s part of the scam, I don’t know. The airline has huge potential and deserves to be great, but the rot has set in. In the month I was there 12 pilots left, some having seen the light half way through the training, others having completed the training, to get as much as possible out of the company in lieu of not getting paid. Some even took the Boeing OPT laptop computers in lieu of payment. Another guy from the UK left with his last $8. Not only did they refused to pay him they also refused his ticket home because he would not sign a contract that in no way resembled the terms and conditions on his letter of appointment agreed before he went out there.
Even their own engineers are leaving for better pay and conditions as well, leaving the company in a dangerous and precarious condition with all engineering experience walking out the door.
This company has failed rule No.3 of business management. “If you don’t look after your staff………….”
There is something sick about a country that spends fortunes on jet airliners, new B777s, launch customers in Africa for the B787, while their own people starve. Just one B777 could transform the lives of millions for years.
So if you’re looking for a job, and are considering Ethiopian Airlines as a possibility, my advice is STOP! REJECT!.... Everyone should boycott this airline until they see the error of their ways and to stop other airlines from following suit and taking us all for the MUGs we’ve been in the past for going along with this sort of garbage in the first place.
Warning, Warning…… more fool you if you fail to heed this Warning!!!!
Ethiopian Airlines is offering what appears to be a great commutable contract. For expatriate pilots from all over the world the deal is for B777, B767, B757, B737 & MD11 crews paying $7000 per month, working 20 days on and 10 days off OR 24 days on and 14 days off, plus $60 per day expense allowance.
Although the money isn’t the best deal about, the commuting roster makes up for that and has proved a real plus in the past , on the face of it, a very attractive deal for many. However, the rules have changed and I believe that corruption has infiltrated what was a great deal.
The first thing anyone interested in this job needs to know is that you won’t get paid. The new deal is that you don’t get paid until you finish your ‘Training’. A process that used to take anything between two and four weeks, now takes anything up to three months!! You see the longer they can keep you in the training program, the longer they don’t have to pay you.
After finishing the simulator and classroom work you will go into line training. Since the new rules were invented, no-one has finished the line training. Every excuse is made to give you another sector and now it has become a requirement to line check pilots on every route. In short they will use you as a pilot on a commercial flight with fair paying passengers and not have to pay you a bean, until you eventually wake up to find the handle on your back and’ MUG’ across your brow! As no doubt someone is creaming off your pay for their own wallet!
OK, I have no proof that corruption is behind this, but the clues are there. It’s not every office you walk into these days that has an ‘Anti-Corruption Suggestion Box’ taking pride of place in the entrance to the office block.
They pay for the Hotel for the first 20 days and then you are on your own. The per-diem payments $60 a day are supposed to help you with your living expenses after that, particularly as you are not going to get paid during training which can take up to three months. Don’t be fooled by this promise either, I never received a penny in per-diems and faced with the prospect of being destitute in Addis Ababa, I had to leave, a total waste of time!
The fact is that the Ethiopian People are nice people, or maybe that’s part of the scam, I don’t know. The airline has huge potential and deserves to be great, but the rot has set in. In the month I was there 12 pilots left, some having seen the light half way through the training, others having completed the training, to get as much as possible out of the company in lieu of not getting paid. Some even took the Boeing OPT laptop computers in lieu of payment. Another guy from the UK left with his last $8. Not only did they refused to pay him they also refused his ticket home because he would not sign a contract that in no way resembled the terms and conditions on his letter of appointment agreed before he went out there.
Even their own engineers are leaving for better pay and conditions as well, leaving the company in a dangerous and precarious condition with all engineering experience walking out the door.
This company has failed rule No.3 of business management. “If you don’t look after your staff………….”
There is something sick about a country that spends fortunes on jet airliners, new B777s, launch customers in Africa for the B787, while their own people starve. Just one B777 could transform the lives of millions for years.
So if you’re looking for a job, and are considering Ethiopian Airlines as a possibility, my advice is STOP! REJECT!.... Everyone should boycott this airline until they see the error of their ways and to stop other airlines from following suit and taking us all for the MUGs we’ve been in the past for going along with this sort of garbage in the first place.
Warning, Warning…… more fool you if you fail to heed this Warning!!!!
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I had heard some of what you say, but hadn't realised it was THAT bad.
Thanks for the heads-up, hopefully it saves some others making an expensive mistake.
I heard that a few people "used" (in the eyes of the airline) Ethiopian for a few months to "get current" & left, hence the cancellation of pay during training, but this will achieve far more radical results than getting rid of time-wasters, this should , in short time, dry up completely the potential candidates, the stories that exist about their training regime won't help much either.
As you say, a real shame, as , in spite of the money, at least the roster offered a life. I never saw the 24/14 option, only saw 20/10 or 25/12, but it is wholly irrelevant if they don't pay full salary from day 1,as I am not yet a "registered charity".
Thanks for the heads-up, hopefully it saves some others making an expensive mistake.
I heard that a few people "used" (in the eyes of the airline) Ethiopian for a few months to "get current" & left, hence the cancellation of pay during training, but this will achieve far more radical results than getting rid of time-wasters, this should , in short time, dry up completely the potential candidates, the stories that exist about their training regime won't help much either.
As you say, a real shame, as , in spite of the money, at least the roster offered a life. I never saw the 24/14 option, only saw 20/10 or 25/12, but it is wholly irrelevant if they don't pay full salary from day 1,as I am not yet a "registered charity".
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Indeed, I forgot to mention, that the 20 days on and 10 days off roster also only starts after training as well, so you can't go home until training has finished AND you have completed you first 20 days after training. So don't think you'll be home for Christmas!
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Would you like to share with us what agency you worked through (or you were direct hire ?), what you were told to expect before this fiasco became evident, and the agencies reaction subsequent to events.
We all know which agencies advertise this post, and it is very important to know which ones offer NO back up when it all goes down the toilet (well, that covers about 90% of agencies in my experience)
We all know which agencies advertise this post, and it is very important to know which ones offer NO back up when it all goes down the toilet (well, that covers about 90% of agencies in my experience)
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Story can be corroborated as two former colleagues of mine, from different continents recently left Ethiopian for similar reasons.
These two upstanding lads gave notice in accordance with the terms and conditions of their contracts. They flew up to the bitter end of their termination notice. In their last two weeks of service I advised them ensure the company issue certified irrevocable travel passes, signed by both officers of the airline and operations, to their home countries. During their time remaining, they were treated with the utmost disdain by management, and operations. Their first officers were encouraged by both management and operations to write up any infractions observed by these two captains. They are still trying to obtain their pay for their final month of service given to the company
. They can pretty much write off their final pay as a hard lesson learned.
They are now at new airlines, one in the Middle East and one in China. One can only hope that management and or operations will not fabricate stories on these two which may affect their employment at their respective carriers. Fortunate they have copies of their records from start of training to their last check rides. After all as legitimate as Ethiopian may be
, I’m sure they would never provide prospective employer or aviation agencies with falsified records
.
Two things an employer should never interfere with are quality of life and compensation.
These two upstanding lads gave notice in accordance with the terms and conditions of their contracts. They flew up to the bitter end of their termination notice. In their last two weeks of service I advised them ensure the company issue certified irrevocable travel passes, signed by both officers of the airline and operations, to their home countries. During their time remaining, they were treated with the utmost disdain by management, and operations. Their first officers were encouraged by both management and operations to write up any infractions observed by these two captains. They are still trying to obtain their pay for their final month of service given to the company
. They can pretty much write off their final pay as a hard lesson learned. They are now at new airlines, one in the Middle East and one in China. One can only hope that management and or operations will not fabricate stories on these two which may affect their employment at their respective carriers. Fortunate they have copies of their records from start of training to their last check rides. After all as legitimate as Ethiopian may be
, I’m sure they would never provide prospective employer or aviation agencies with falsified records.Two things an employer should never interfere with are quality of life and compensation.
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I don't wish to name the agency at the moment as I am pursuing some legal action. I don't wish to jeopardise my position, save to say the agency was as much in the dark as I was about the changes to the T&Cs. It does not let them off the hook in my opinion and is an issue between them an the airline. I still have some issues with the agency regarding Gross Misrepresentation and indeed the fact they did nothing to help. In law I have to give them the oportunity to right the wrong. Watch this space and I will keep you all updated as soon as there has been some kind of resolution one way or another.
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OK understood, good luck with that.
Wonder how long Ethiopian think they can pull this stunt for before it becomes common knowledge. Given that they have been advertising for quite some time, and the same scenario a year ago, one would have thought that good business sense might have involved recruiting & retaining the best they could, for the slightly underwhelming package on offer. Instead someone has decided to make a quick buck.
This one should make its way to the thread in the Africa Forum " You know you are in Africa when. ." ( it is not reasonable to expect to be paid for the first 3 months work )
Line check to every destination, Wow! I am impressed
, what high standards, how diligent they are
Perhaps the agencies still advertising this gig should be appraised of the situation, & given the opportunity to withdraw the vacancy, perhaps then the idiots down there might ultimately understand " No Bucks no Buck Rogers"
Wonder how long Ethiopian think they can pull this stunt for before it becomes common knowledge. Given that they have been advertising for quite some time, and the same scenario a year ago, one would have thought that good business sense might have involved recruiting & retaining the best they could, for the slightly underwhelming package on offer. Instead someone has decided to make a quick buck.
This one should make its way to the thread in the Africa Forum " You know you are in Africa when. ." ( it is not reasonable to expect to be paid for the first 3 months work )
Line check to every destination, Wow! I am impressed
, what high standards, how diligent they are Perhaps the agencies still advertising this gig should be appraised of the situation, & given the opportunity to withdraw the vacancy, perhaps then the idiots down there might ultimately understand " No Bucks no Buck Rogers"
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Why would any pilot even think about taking a job where you don't get paid during training?
This race to the bottom can be stopped if there is no takers for this sort of B.S.
This race to the bottom can be stopped if there is no takers for this sort of B.S.
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It does indeed, or Rishworth , or any number of agencies many of us could "recommend to a friend" the most recent to advertise it however (and still a current vacancy 3 days ago) were FCI & Sigma.
the most recent to advertise it however (and still a current vacancy 3 days ago) were FCI & Sigma.
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be careful
FCI tells you the pay is 8900 us including per diems... the Sigma ad says salary is negotiable...go figure. I had an interview with them some time ago, the guys flying the line there were not unhappy (however ready for a change, especially on the 75/76 mostly night flights) but the situation now seems VERY different than what I experienced...
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Thanks all, for keeping this post alive, which I think is very important if we are to alert all pilots currently looking for a job. I heard another airline went broke in the UK the other day and the guys there may be tempted by the Ethiopian deal, I hope they see sense and give the company the 'cold shoulder'.
It's clear by the replies to this post that pilots are very cynical about the agencies and just how much they do for us. We need to keep everyone informed about what these companies are like and what they do when it all get's a little 'pear shaped'. These forums are essential for this and all we need is to encourage pilots out there to speak out regarding their experiences and thus help others avoid the same pit fall.
Ultimately it is important, even if you have little to say, to keep the post 'alive' and on the front page for as long as we can or as long as it is deemed to be necessary. I therefore urge everyone who reads this post to reply to it even if you just say 'I agree'. That way it's like voting. Together, we can boycott this airline and others and agencies that try to stitch us up. They all need to know that if they piss any one of us off like this, they piss us all off and they shoot themselves in the foot.
Solidarity my friends!
It's clear by the replies to this post that pilots are very cynical about the agencies and just how much they do for us. We need to keep everyone informed about what these companies are like and what they do when it all get's a little 'pear shaped'. These forums are essential for this and all we need is to encourage pilots out there to speak out regarding their experiences and thus help others avoid the same pit fall.
Ultimately it is important, even if you have little to say, to keep the post 'alive' and on the front page for as long as we can or as long as it is deemed to be necessary. I therefore urge everyone who reads this post to reply to it even if you just say 'I agree'. That way it's like voting. Together, we can boycott this airline and others and agencies that try to stitch us up. They all need to know that if they piss any one of us off like this, they piss us all off and they shoot themselves in the foot.
Solidarity my friends!
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I agree Zubenelgenubi
.
Pilot Unions should be proactive and advising and warning their unemployed membership to avoid, not only Ethiopian, but every bottom feeding airline.
.Pilot Unions should be proactive and advising and warning their unemployed membership to avoid, not only Ethiopian, but every bottom feeding airline.
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Would be nice to hear what the two agencies still advertising for candidates reply if asked some "leading" questions Ref pay during training/length of training period etc.
Perhaps someone bored at home would like to give it a go & make a "speculative" inquiry, might even do it myself in an idle moment (of which I have many at this moment)
Perhaps someone bored at home would like to give it a go & make a "speculative" inquiry, might even do it myself in an idle moment (of which I have many at this moment)
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Better late than never. . . . . . . .
Response from Sigma was "Ethiopian make no secret of the fact they do not pay salary till training finished. They are trying to make this as short as possible (Yeah Right, by checking you out to every destination ) & Computer Based Training can now be done at home. It should take a "maximum" of 2 months. Employment contract is signed & salary paid only after completion of training"
"During this time you are paid 60¢ a day per-diem and hotel is provided throughout training" (some here have suggested they had received NO perdiem whatsoever & that hotel was only provided for 20 days)
I declined the "generous" offer, some may wish to try, if you do, well Good Luck, & be sure to take some money with you, just in case the hotac is canx after 20 days & the Per Diem doesn't materialise. Otherwise you will end up looking like a Local by the end of training
Flight Crew International currently advertise "Salary+ Per Diem (at base, layover & during training)" I asked them to clarify if what they perhaps meant was "Salary + (Per Diem at base, layover & during training)"
They got back to me with "training typically takes 3 weeks (REALLY ! ? ) although can now take 5-6 weeks due to the number of candidates going through training, but no-one has informed us it took 8 weeks" & confirmed only Per Diem + Hotel OR accommodation allowance till training complete.
They also confirmed that Ethiopian provide candidates the training login details so they can complete the computer based part of OCC at home prior to going to ADD.
Maybe I should email back & ask if I can claim perdiems & accommodation allowance whilst "working" from home completing the OCC
Will be interested to see how you anyone can complete an OCC & get checked out to ALL destinations in 3 weeks
Hope everyone can refuse this cr@p, & then maybe it will improve, but I suspect some will still go for it.
Response from Sigma was "Ethiopian make no secret of the fact they do not pay salary till training finished. They are trying to make this as short as possible (Yeah Right, by checking you out to every destination
) & Computer Based Training can now be done at home. It should take a "maximum" of 2 months. Employment contract is signed & salary paid only after completion of training" "During this time you are paid 60¢ a day per-diem and hotel is provided throughout training" (some here have suggested they had received NO perdiem whatsoever & that hotel was only provided for 20 days)
I declined the "generous" offer, some may wish to try, if you do, well Good Luck, & be sure to take some money with you, just in case the hotac is canx after 20 days & the Per Diem doesn't materialise. Otherwise you will end up looking like a Local by the end of training
Flight Crew International currently advertise "Salary+ Per Diem (at base, layover & during training)" I asked them to clarify if what they perhaps meant was "Salary + (Per Diem at base, layover & during training)"
They got back to me with "training typically takes 3 weeks (REALLY ! ? ) although can now take 5-6 weeks due to the number of candidates going through training, but no-one has informed us it took 8 weeks" & confirmed only Per Diem + Hotel OR accommodation allowance till training complete.
They also confirmed that Ethiopian provide candidates the training login details so they can complete the computer based part of OCC at home prior to going to ADD.
Maybe I should email back & ask if I can claim perdiems & accommodation allowance whilst "working" from home completing the OCC
Will be interested to see how you anyone can complete an OCC & get checked out to ALL destinations in 3 weeks
Hope everyone can refuse this cr@p, & then maybe it will improve, but I suspect some will still go for it.
Last edited by captplaystation; 3rd Feb 2012 at 17:53.
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I thought they were only looking for people with current type ratings. Why such long training?
As pointed out before, if IOE is to be included in training, then it's free labor while the airline makes money of the sweat of your brow!
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Really?
You people are the most clueless bunch I've ever seen. You misread their mentality sooooo much it's pathetic! You're still thinking in terms of the neat and tidy contract work you're used to elsewhere. Forget it! This is a different world and you're doing a disservice to anyone who would benefit from working there.
If anyone out there is serious about the airline, here's some real insight you can use instead of the vitriol I see posted: Ethiopian, or as the literary genius Zubenelwhatever calls it, "Ethiopean," is a government-owned enterprise with profit being only one of its many motivators. It has survived decades of political subversion, mismanagement, wars, civil wars, disasters, countless hijakings and coups-galore to become a respectable outfit in Africa. To think that your pompous threat of "boycott" will pain the airline is comedic delusion at its best! Just mind boggling, laughable cluelessness!
Do yourself a big favor and get it through your heads that you'll go without pay for training- so don't come broke and threaten them with a story that you'll turn into a beggar if they don't pay you immediately- they don't care. As far as they know, living on the edge of bankruptcy is your own problem. Know that you have to be patient with EVERYTHING while there. Everyone is delayed and given the run around, including the locals, not just you. Save your patronizing as no one will accommodate your workers' rights philosophy, neither will they play the role of satisfying your unemployment needs. The fact that you get paid 3 times a local captain will make your indignation seem out of place at the office. They're proud, and you appear as just another in a line of know-it-all foreigners with a chip on their shoulder, so consider your attitude before you try to join- a friendly one will get you much farther than pounding on some agency contract or a lecture on labor laws. They dictate the terms. They're liable to change them. Take it, or leave it- for a better airline if you can.
That's reality, so you either know about it and make it work, or you can spend your time debating the virtues of the Magna Carta- your choice. One will lead to a job, the other to frustration. Some are satisfied, some are not. Most expats are level-headed and know enough to get the maximum out of their circumstances. Others are incompetent boobs who slip through the cracks and pray their next screw-up doesn't cost them their job. Or if they get rejected, spew trash and fumble around forums to boost their fallen ego. If you do make it through training and come to appreciate the work, like some of the more balanced expats there do, you'll have a variety of destinations not found at most other places, great hotels, time in one of the safest capitals anywhere, and a chance to see a unique culture.
It's hard flying, but think for yourself and don't listen to the poison spouted like the "starvation versus shiny jets" brain-fart, and the "bottom-feeder airline" nonsense. The third-world shortcomings come as a great revelation these knuckleheads. The easier it is for you to realize complaining won't change the culutre, the sooner you'll adapt.
Those uninformed should get a better grasp of the reality of the world they live in, stop acting the prima donna and first try to understand what they're getting into before becoming online crusaders.
If anyone out there is serious about the airline, here's some real insight you can use instead of the vitriol I see posted: Ethiopian, or as the literary genius Zubenelwhatever calls it, "Ethiopean," is a government-owned enterprise with profit being only one of its many motivators. It has survived decades of political subversion, mismanagement, wars, civil wars, disasters, countless hijakings and coups-galore to become a respectable outfit in Africa. To think that your pompous threat of "boycott" will pain the airline is comedic delusion at its best! Just mind boggling, laughable cluelessness!
Do yourself a big favor and get it through your heads that you'll go without pay for training- so don't come broke and threaten them with a story that you'll turn into a beggar if they don't pay you immediately- they don't care. As far as they know, living on the edge of bankruptcy is your own problem. Know that you have to be patient with EVERYTHING while there. Everyone is delayed and given the run around, including the locals, not just you. Save your patronizing as no one will accommodate your workers' rights philosophy, neither will they play the role of satisfying your unemployment needs. The fact that you get paid 3 times a local captain will make your indignation seem out of place at the office. They're proud, and you appear as just another in a line of know-it-all foreigners with a chip on their shoulder, so consider your attitude before you try to join- a friendly one will get you much farther than pounding on some agency contract or a lecture on labor laws. They dictate the terms. They're liable to change them. Take it, or leave it- for a better airline if you can.
That's reality, so you either know about it and make it work, or you can spend your time debating the virtues of the Magna Carta- your choice. One will lead to a job, the other to frustration. Some are satisfied, some are not. Most expats are level-headed and know enough to get the maximum out of their circumstances. Others are incompetent boobs who slip through the cracks and pray their next screw-up doesn't cost them their job. Or if they get rejected, spew trash and fumble around forums to boost their fallen ego. If you do make it through training and come to appreciate the work, like some of the more balanced expats there do, you'll have a variety of destinations not found at most other places, great hotels, time in one of the safest capitals anywhere, and a chance to see a unique culture.
It's hard flying, but think for yourself and don't listen to the poison spouted like the "starvation versus shiny jets" brain-fart, and the "bottom-feeder airline" nonsense. The third-world shortcomings come as a great revelation these knuckleheads. The easier it is for you to realize complaining won't change the culutre, the sooner you'll adapt.
Those uninformed should get a better grasp of the reality of the world they live in, stop acting the prima donna and first try to understand what they're getting into before becoming online crusaders.
strontium
Biggest load of tripe I have ever heard. Unbelievable.
In no way are any of the events described above acceptable in any job, let alone the aviation industry, in which outside factors like not being paid/boarded/treated fairly, can contribute to a work environment that is less than safe. The number of incidents in history that have shown is are too numerous to list.
I find your attitude shockingly abhorrent. In no way will it lead to the said airline rising in the ranks on a world stage. Good luck to you.....
Biggest load of tripe I have ever heard. Unbelievable.
In no way are any of the events described above acceptable in any job, let alone the aviation industry, in which outside factors like not being paid/boarded/treated fairly, can contribute to a work environment that is less than safe. The number of incidents in history that have shown is are too numerous to list.
I find your attitude shockingly abhorrent. In no way will it lead to the said airline rising in the ranks on a world stage. Good luck to you.....