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Old 12th Oct 2009, 01:35   #1 (permalink)


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BA vs. Virgin pay

Curious as to know the difference between comparable seat positions at BA vs. Virgin Atlantic in the B-747. I can't seem to find a pay scale break down that is similar to the payscales posted for the US carriers.
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Old 12th Oct 2009, 12:38   #2 (permalink)

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BA pilots do 900 hours, VS rather less, (750?) so comparisons must take that into account?
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Old 12th Oct 2009, 14:22   #3 (permalink)
 
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search pilot jobs network, they are on there
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Old 12th Oct 2009, 16:53   #4 (permalink)
 
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Can't really do a straight comparison of hours....the crews have been doing a lot more than 750 hours for a good while now as positioning around the network is prevalent and attracts no credit towards the annual hours total.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 00:48   #5 (permalink)


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Virgin atlantic

VIRGIN ATLANTIC ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
* At least 2500 - 3000 hours total time
* Commercial candidates should have a minimum of 1500 hours commercial jet time (BAe 146 or above)
* UK issue JAA ATPL
* MCC qualified
* Right of abode in the EU

Hi all,
I tick all of the boxes above 4000 total 3500 320BUS,but i was wondering can anyone shed any light on the "uk issue ATPL" my ATPL is issued by the irish aviation authority,does this mean in order to meet virgins requirments i will have to re-sit my ATPL exams to have them UK issued or does it mean I have to simply Transfer my current IAA ATPL to become a CAA atpl,
Anyone who has gone throught this process if you could shed some light would be greatly appreciated,
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 01:07   #6 (permalink)
 
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All you need to do is get it transfered to a caa one long as you did atpl exams for your Irish atpl then it's just the usual paperwork and about a week to get caa to issue you atpl and also around 280 pounds.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 04:05   #7 (permalink)
 
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This particular requirement (or the payment) may be discriminitive under EU laws.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 04:10   #8 (permalink)
 
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Is there any chance of recruitment at VA in the next 5 years??
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 07:42   #9 (permalink)
 
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I left VS last year. Voluntary redundancy. I couldn't see a future as an FO. I was 100 up from the bottom, 3 years in and looking at another 12 years to Command.

With BA/AA tie up, VS are very exposed.

They will recruit, but don't expect anything other than 15 years to a Command course.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 08:47   #10 (permalink)
 
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Stan's spot on.

15 years is a long time to spend being ignored!

Mate of mine took redundancy from Virgin - did 9 years and was looking at a further 9 for any sniff of a command.

If I was under 25 I'd consider it, but like Stan mentioned - as an airline they are very exposed. BA will survive at the expense of T & C's for crew and their whole European operation. As a result, I think this will affect Virgin's growth potential and ultimately career progression . . .
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 10:05   #11 (permalink)
 
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Stanstead - is command the be all and end all? Ok it is a long time to wait but the quality of life and the pay as an FO in Virgin after that time would surely be substantial?
Would the pay not be approaching the equivalent of an easyJet captain?
I am often under the impression that people chase the left hand seat to the detriment of all other considerations. LHS shorthaul low cost may pay more in the short term but the work is very tough and you miss out on seeing the world!
Just my thought!
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 10:12   #12 (permalink)
 
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Not if the ezy CP is based in MXP,CDG,ORY,MAD...
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 10:58   #13 (permalink)
 
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well out of interest i'm a year 7 F/O at VS and i'm not sure i agree that a 9 year F/O would have another 9 years to command.. would not like to put a time scale on it as i don't have my crystal ball with me but think 9/10 years is a bit excessive to me...

Yes the economic slow down has had a major affect on expansion/commands but with the A330 turning up (not sure on replacement/expansion), the B747-400 leases extended and then eventually the B787/A380 (if it arrives) on the order books then things are very slowly turning around...

Now yes i could be looking through rose tinted glasses but once the demoted skippers get back in the LHS and the chaps that were made redundant return the the business i suspect Virgin being Virgin will expand like they did 5/6 years ago as we come out of the recession and return to profitability...

just my own thoughts and opinions
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 11:18   #14 (permalink)
 
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Well, I'm just going on what he passed on to me!

I believe a Virgin FO in salary terms sits in between a Skipper salary and a SFO salary at easyJet (unless they're CDG, MXP or MAD based!!)
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 11:54   #15 (permalink)
 
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Hi Akrapovicyeah,

yeah, not sure what EZY T&C are but suspect your not far off

cheers
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 11:58   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
VIRGIN ATLANTIC ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
* At least 2500 - 3000 hours total time
* Commercial candidates should have a minimum of 1500 hours commercial jet time (BAe 146 or above)
* UK issue JAA ATPL
* MCC qualified
* Right of abode in the EU
Where did you find this?How can anyone apply?

Thank you very much
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 12:15   #17 (permalink)
 
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Autobrake Low

I am a low cost Captain now, and my lifestyle and fatigue levels are far better now than when I worked for VS.

I was permanently jet lagged.

And 15 years is realistic. No matter what you may think, there are 500 FO's ahead of any new joiners. All waiting.

If a lifestyle of being away from home, with crews who you never see in a hotel you are visiting for the 3rd time in a month is your kind of lifestyle, then I strongly recommend that you sign up.

For me, it wasn't. I took my Voluntary severance and ran.

I enjoy my Command - I'd waited 11 years for it.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 12:28   #18 (permalink)
 
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So Stansdead, when you said you were leaving Virgin to do your bit and help save jobs further down the list that wasn't strictly true? You've since been asking around PPRuNe about opportunities to escape your new low cost job, what gives?

For those looking to apply, Virgin are NOT recruiting and I suspect are unlikely to for some time.

There are Demoted Captains as well as Pilots on reduced hours, some more who have agreed to go Part time as well as a considerable number who have taken long sabbaticals. All of this would have to be undone with everyone offered the chance to return to full time work if they wish. Once that's done, the smaller number who were made compulsorily redundant and those who took Voluntary severance would be invited back. All this before any external recruitment.

The lifestyle picture that Stansdead paints is reasonably accurate in fairness though.

In short, don't get your hopes up. Time to command, as Fast Cruiser says, it's anyones guess. If time to command is critical to you then Virgin Atlantic is possibly not the place for you.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 14:33   #19 (permalink)
 
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Eyes off the ball.

I did my bit by taking a sabbatical. I then got offered VSS which I took.

I enjoy my low cost Command. It's different to VS, and yes, I'd like to get nearer home, or use my Command to move to the Middle East - what's wrong with that?

I didn't leave VS to stand still!! I took an opportunity for Command and lots of others wish they had. Combine that with a payoff, and it has been a good bit if business for me. The VSS protected my family financially if my current employer had, or does fail. I was so far from promotion and so relatively near the chopline that my actions were, and are, totally justified.

Anyway, I've not said VS is bad. It's just not everyone cup of tea. I have days when I miss it, but on the whole there's more opportunities for Current Captains than FO's. And that won't change. It's a good investment.

I'd rather you didn't insinuate that I wasn't doing my bit when the chips were down last year. You always look after number 1, but I did at least save another job by my sabbatical and ultimately redundancy. To suggest I was doing it solely for other people, is frankly, naive. It suited me to help. I'm glad I did, because i had a good opportunity. And it kept someone else employed.

I look forward to a phone call being asked back. I didn't expect that. But, it's unlikely I will return for the reasons given above.

Last edited by stansdead; 3rd Mar 2010 at 20:09. Reason: spelling!!
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:56   #20 (permalink)
 
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I think at the moment any major airline in the UK is going to experience large periods of time before command - BA, Virgin, Thomson, Thomas Cook are all around the 10-15 years mark. I would suspect that Easyjet will soon experience longer time frames as their aircraft orders slow up.

I would take quality of life over time to command, providing it was going to come eventually.

Just my opinion.
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