A330 Eng#2 failure and Y Elec HYD Pump?
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A330 Eng#2 failure and Y Elec HYD Pump?
Hi,
Just wondering what are different views on what to do with Y HYD pump after Eng#2 failure. For those not familiar with the type, Y Elec Pump operates automatically after fail if flaps are out and will continue to run till landing.
The caveat is that elec pumps are supposed to run only for short periods of time and could overheat otherwise. Do your company SOPs tell you to switch it off, or leave it alone?
Mine does not say anything, nor the Airbus procedure ask for switching the pump off, so till now I have always left it alone. Any opinions on that, or even better, any Information directly from Airbus on that?
Just wondering what are different views on what to do with Y HYD pump after Eng#2 failure. For those not familiar with the type, Y Elec Pump operates automatically after fail if flaps are out and will continue to run till landing.
The caveat is that elec pumps are supposed to run only for short periods of time and could overheat otherwise. Do your company SOPs tell you to switch it off, or leave it alone?
Mine does not say anything, nor the Airbus procedure ask for switching the pump off, so till now I have always left it alone. Any opinions on that, or even better, any Information directly from Airbus on that?
We turn them off after takeoff in that situation. I think you have sort of answered your own question in that they are only supposed to run for a short period and are not designed to replace an EDP. So turn them off, the guarded switch is there for you to use
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FCOM
ENG 1 (2) SHUT DOWN.
Expanded info in FCOM...
NOTE.
If the Y ELEC PUMP is running after ENG 2 failure (engine failure before flaps retraction), SWITCH OFF the pump when in clean configuration.
Expanded info in FCOM...
NOTE.
If the Y ELEC PUMP is running after ENG 2 failure (engine failure before flaps retraction), SWITCH OFF the pump when in clean configuration.
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If the Yellow Electric Pump is running, following an engine failure, the Status page is missing the blue line 'Apply landing distance procedure'. The machine is also showing the landing capability as CAT 3 B.
The reason for this is that if the Y ELEC PUMP is running, all three hydraulic systems are working, hence you do NOT lose a pair of spoilers... Also you do not lose your CAT 3 B Capability... In our simulator the Y ELEC PUMP shuts down, after there is an electric power transfer (i.e. if the APU starts running and the APU GEN is powered...)
The reason for this is that if the Y ELEC PUMP is running, all three hydraulic systems are working, hence you do NOT lose a pair of spoilers... Also you do not lose your CAT 3 B Capability... In our simulator the Y ELEC PUMP shuts down, after there is an electric power transfer (i.e. if the APU starts running and the APU GEN is powered...)
Yes it always pays to follow the Airbus FCOM and Techniques manual....
Switch it off, otherwise you will also get CAT3 DUAL which may lead you to the wrong idea in an LVO situation as Kingair1978 says above
Switch it off, otherwise you will also get CAT3 DUAL which may lead you to the wrong idea in an LVO situation as Kingair1978 says above
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Fair enough, somehow missed the note in the FCOM procedure. Then again, why wouldn't Airbus make it part of the ECAM sequence? Looking into the FCOM after a failure is optional...
...The caveat is that elec pumps are supposed to run only for short periods of time and could overheat otherwise. ...
Who told you this ...äääh... "fact"
Same pump is installed on the A320Fam at B & Y.
On the blue position they run the hole flight.
Who told you this ...äääh... "fact"
Same pump is installed on the A320Fam at B & Y.
On the blue position they run the hole flight.
Same pump, yes, but I think I am right in saying that when installed in the 'Blue' position on the A320/321, there is more air ducting for increased cooling, thereby allowing continuous running?
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Yellow electric pump can be continuously used when required. It is a myth it gets heated. In yellow EDP fail case with PTU inop the ECAM will ask you to put it on without any restrictions. Same is the case in G+Y fail. Only thing is yellow pump fluid turn over is only 35 ltr/pm as against 125 ltr/pm of EDP so cannot power green through PTU.
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I'm not sure about it. Once I had the Y Elec Pump run continuously on ground, due to mis-alignment of the cargo door handle. After 20 minutes or so, we got Y Elec Pump overheat.
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@ Uplinker:
No additional "air ducting" on the A320 Fam.
@ Sidestick_n_Rudder
This pump is driven by a electric motor and this motor is air cooled.
It is a urge difference if cooled by 15°C or -40°C (on GRD vs. in AIR)...
No additional "air ducting" on the A320 Fam.
@ Sidestick_n_Rudder
This pump is driven by a electric motor and this motor is air cooled.
It is a urge difference if cooled by 15°C or -40°C (on GRD vs. in AIR)...
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My comments are only for A320.
You don't have to be. There could be a different reason for your episode. Has your company put any restriction after your incident? ECAM is very sure about it. And when in G+Y fail with PTU INOP and yellow fluid available what are you going to do when ECAM tells you put it on? Ignore it? There is not a word about any time limit on Yellow pump use. Normally the PTU automatically does the job, and the conditions that forbid use of PTU also forbid the use of any pump. So unnecessarily a doubt has been created that's all.
I'm not sure about it. Once I had the Y Elec Pump run continuously on ground, due to mis-alignment of the cargo door handle. After 20 minutes or so, we got Y Elec Pump overheat.
Last edited by vilas; 16th Jun 2017 at 17:07.
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It is written nowhere in the FCOM I currently have in front of me that the Y ELEC pump runs in the event of a failure of engine 2. Why wouldn't the PTU run? Nor is there anything written about a time limitation for use of the Y ELEC pump.
Oops...misread the original post and thought it was about the 320. Still...I'd be very surprised if the 330 pumps have a time limit on their use.
Oops...misread the original post and thought it was about the 320. Still...I'd be very surprised if the 330 pumps have a time limit on their use.
Last edited by akindofmagic; 17th Jun 2017 at 14:15.
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The reason for not using electric pump is not overheating.
From A330 FCTM
ELECTRICAL PUMPS
These electrical pumps are not designed to replace the Engine Driven Pump to supply flight
controls, as they are power limited (the hydraulic electric pump flow represents 18 % of an engine driven pump flow) and they cannot cover high transient demand from flight controls. Furthermore,
if they were used in case of dual hydraulic failure, they could degrade the aircraft handling (Flight Control jerk).
As a general rule, do not manually select a HYD ELEC PUMP ON, except temporarily, to retract the spoilers if they remain out after a hydraulic failure.
From A330 FCTM
ELECTRICAL PUMPS
These electrical pumps are not designed to replace the Engine Driven Pump to supply flight
controls, as they are power limited (the hydraulic electric pump flow represents 18 % of an engine driven pump flow) and they cannot cover high transient demand from flight controls. Furthermore,
if they were used in case of dual hydraulic failure, they could degrade the aircraft handling (Flight Control jerk).
As a general rule, do not manually select a HYD ELEC PUMP ON, except temporarily, to retract the spoilers if they remain out after a hydraulic failure.
@ Uplinker:
No additional "air ducting" on the A320 Fam.
No additional "air ducting" on the A320 Fam.
