A330/a340 Qrh
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A330/a340 Qrh
From the QRH…..
A/ USE the LDG DIST factors “without REV” when:
1. All reversers are inoperative or
2. Maximum reverse thrust on all available reverser(s) is not selected or
3. The aircraft has been dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative
B/ USE the LDG DIST factors “with REV” when:
1. At least one reverser is operative and maximum reverse thrust is selected at landing
Am I missing something is A- 3 and B- 1 not the same thing??
A/ USE the LDG DIST factors “without REV” when:
1. All reversers are inoperative or
2. Maximum reverse thrust on all available reverser(s) is not selected or
3. The aircraft has been dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative
B/ USE the LDG DIST factors “with REV” when:
1. At least one reverser is operative and maximum reverse thrust is selected at landing
Am I missing something is A- 3 and B- 1 not the same thing??
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Me too……I am ready to go back to Boeing!
Why would you not get some english technical writers to re write these manuals so that they are user friendly…….it’s like me trying to write in French!
Charge de connerie.
Why would you not get some english technical writers to re write these manuals so that they are user friendly…….it’s like me trying to write in French!
Charge de connerie.
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Not the same at all....
Section A/
If "the aircraft has dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative", and THEN suffers ANY in-flight failure, it is immediately presumed that ALL of the reversers are now inoperative.
--> Simplistic? Yes, but it is safe/conservative.
Section B/
Presumes normal dispatch, and an in-flight failure(s) occurs that leaves at one reverser available, then credit can be taken for the use of full reverse on that one reverser.
Mind you, it only factors in one reverser, which ignores the value/possibility of having more than one (A340 - up to 3) available.
All told, this presentation is better than Airbus' last attempt, where they ignored the possibility of a reverser inop at dispatch altogether.
Section A/
If "the aircraft has dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative", and THEN suffers ANY in-flight failure, it is immediately presumed that ALL of the reversers are now inoperative.
--> Simplistic? Yes, but it is safe/conservative.
Section B/
Presumes normal dispatch, and an in-flight failure(s) occurs that leaves at one reverser available, then credit can be taken for the use of full reverse on that one reverser.
Mind you, it only factors in one reverser, which ignores the value/possibility of having more than one (A340 - up to 3) available.
All told, this presentation is better than Airbus' last attempt, where they ignored the possibility of a reverser inop at dispatch altogether.
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Ok, so on the A340, I'm dispatched with 3 engine thrust reversers inoperative……..so for my landing distance calculations, I can use the LDG DIST factors “with REV” as when landing I select reverse thrust on the one available operational reverser........so i am in compliance with ……At least one reverser is operative and maximum reverse thrust is selected at landing…..seems to me I should not be taking any credit for the one reverser?
Last edited by BITE System; 15th May 2010 at 15:02.
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This applies to the A320, but I assume it's the same philosophy:
I despatch with Engine 1 Reverser INOP. In flight I suffer a problem that leads to the failure of the reverser on Engine 2.
I would check the failure in the QRH and it would have both "With Reverse" and "Without Reverse" landing distance factors.
"With Reverse" implies I am using full reverse on all remaining engines (Number 1)
"Without Reverse" implies I do not select reverse.
As you can see, if you dispatch with an engine reverse inop you must use the "Without Reverse" figures because the QRH has no means of knowing which reversers were inop when you dispatched.
I despatch with Engine 1 Reverser INOP. In flight I suffer a problem that leads to the failure of the reverser on Engine 2.
I would check the failure in the QRH and it would have both "With Reverse" and "Without Reverse" landing distance factors.
"With Reverse" implies I am using full reverse on all remaining engines (Number 1)
"Without Reverse" implies I do not select reverse.
As you can see, if you dispatch with an engine reverse inop you must use the "Without Reverse" figures because the QRH has no means of knowing which reversers were inop when you dispatched.
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simple.....u depart having 1,2 or 3 reversers inop. on approach briefing, u mentioned that u wanna use idle reverse or no reverse, or max reverse on remaining reverser coz the runway is long and dry. so check on QRH 4.03 actual landing distance config full, dry rwy, without reversers correction.
this statement :
A/ USE the LDG DIST factors “without REV” when:
1. All reversers are inoperative or
2. Maximum reverse thrust on all available reverser(s) is not selected or
3. The aircraft has been dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative
B/ USE the LDG DIST factors “with REV” when:
1. At least one reverser is operative and maximum reverse thrust is selected at landing
this only applied, if u are landing with a failure/s that were mentioned in the failure tables, QRH 2.41, 2.42 and so on. there's a note below the table that says, if u dispatch with 1 or more reversers inop, use the actual landing distance (QRH 4.03) without reversers correction, regardless on actual reverser application on landing.
hopefully this will shed some light in your understanding...
this statement :
A/ USE the LDG DIST factors “without REV” when:
1. All reversers are inoperative or
2. Maximum reverse thrust on all available reverser(s) is not selected or
3. The aircraft has been dispatched with one or more reverser(s) inoperative
B/ USE the LDG DIST factors “with REV” when:
1. At least one reverser is operative and maximum reverse thrust is selected at landing
this only applied, if u are landing with a failure/s that were mentioned in the failure tables, QRH 2.41, 2.42 and so on. there's a note below the table that says, if u dispatch with 1 or more reversers inop, use the actual landing distance (QRH 4.03) without reversers correction, regardless on actual reverser application on landing.
hopefully this will shed some light in your understanding...
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Thanks Syedo,
Simple once you know it, like everything! Thanks for your input, I missed B/ at the bottom of each table as I was busy concentrating on 2.50.....there is always a little note somwhere........
Simple once you know it, like everything! Thanks for your input, I missed B/ at the bottom of each table as I was busy concentrating on 2.50.....there is always a little note somwhere........
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keep it simple
While the attempt by Airbus to provide us with a more comprehensive landing distance tabulation is commendable, the difference between with and without reversers is only about 5% or so.
I wouldn't bother ever applying the with reverse correction, because:
1) it's another potential screw- up/misstep, when you're already busy calculating several other variables. (Do I multiply the factors together or just take the highest one etc....)
2) if the landing distance available is REALLY so tight,that you NEED reverse to justify the approach, then you really should think about using another runway.
3)having applied the 'with reverse' distance on paper, you now find the 'on runway' conditions a little 'tricky', you now have to cancel reverse to retain directional control, or avert some other disaster, and suddenly 'bingo', there goes your stopping distance, out the window!
fugedaboudit.
I wouldn't bother ever applying the with reverse correction, because:
1) it's another potential screw- up/misstep, when you're already busy calculating several other variables. (Do I multiply the factors together or just take the highest one etc....)
2) if the landing distance available is REALLY so tight,that you NEED reverse to justify the approach, then you really should think about using another runway.
3)having applied the 'with reverse' distance on paper, you now find the 'on runway' conditions a little 'tricky', you now have to cancel reverse to retain directional control, or avert some other disaster, and suddenly 'bingo', there goes your stopping distance, out the window!
fugedaboudit.
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No Probs BITE System....
agreed Honkozzie on keeping it simple..... but before we decide to keep everything simple, at least we understand how it is done, what margin we are talking about, and so on, then we can decide, lets round it up and make it simple... there's no harm to be more conservative, as long as we understand how its done.... just my 2 cents..
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Did anybody already mention that, with an outer reverse/engine inop, you will get only idle reverse on the other outer engine on all A340. Dispatch with rev #4 inop and fail #2, and there you are...
Makes for interesting t/o calcs on contaminated rwy's, too!
Or what are you talking about, anyway?
Makes for interesting t/o calcs on contaminated rwy's, too!
Or what are you talking about, anyway?
