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Old 16th Apr 2012, 22:18   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Avoiding venus...

The Air Canada Boeing 767–333 (registration C–GHLQ, serial number 30846) was operating as flight ACA878 from Toronto, Ontario, to Zurich, Switzerland. Approximately halfway across the Atlantic, during the hours of darkness, the aircraft experienced a 46–second pitch excursion

The rest is here - TSB report

Although some will certainly make great use of "The FO initially mistook the planet Venus for an aircraft but the captain advised again that the target was at the 12 o'clock position and 1000 feet below" it still doesn't show great airmanship.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 23:27   #2 (permalink)
 
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Some pretty good analysis and info about fatigue in that report.
Anyone who does shift work has probably experienced sleep-inertia. It can be very disorienting.

Worth reading.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 23:49   #3 (permalink)
 
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The f/o must be one gungho fly by the seat of the pants ace with lightning quick reflexes, superb at hands on manual flying! In his mind, do not trust those electronic gizmo like TCAS, EPGWS...they are always giving false indications. Can blame him as he was probably still in dreamland and may still be in dreamland even when fully awake.

In my experience, if one wants to take a " controlled " nap, I always make sure the seat is retracted full back and reclined back with the pilot fully strapped with seat belt and shoulder harness so that he/she does not accidently interfered with the controls in case of sudden reaction to nightmares or agitation. I had one guy who woked up suddenly with a jerk, kicking the rudder and his hands flailing across to the thrust levers!
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 02:01   #4 (permalink)
 
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Fatigue in Air Canada

Transportation Safety Board of Canada - AVIATION REPORTS - 2011*- A11F0012

What is interesting but sad, is that the Relief Pilot who was to operate the return leg, ZRH-YYZ, was deadheading in the back. Air Canada, it seems, are trying to save a few bob, as a DHD only attracts 50% of the pilot's hourly rate.
Increasing shareholder value, while at the same time sacrificing flight safety has to be a major concern for those pax travelling Air Canada!
Comments?

Last edited by publius; 17th Apr 2012 at 02:15.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:03   #5 (permalink)
 
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Having spent many years on shift work in the pharmaceutical industry I can confirm that 'sleepiness' can create some pretty weird "illusions". Actually I'm surprised to read that a sleeping pilot can have such rapid access to controls on waking.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:11   #6 (permalink)
 
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From the report:

Quote:
Before he had children, the FO's normally slept 8 hours per night. After having children, the FO normally slept approximately 6 to 7 hours per night, between 2300 and 0600, which could often be interrupted when the children required care. Often, the FO would take a nap early in the afternoon for an hour in an attempt to make up for lost sleep. The FO followed a normal sleep pattern during the 2 non–working days prior to the occurrence. The night before the occurrence, the FO was able to obtain nearly 8 hours of rest with some child care interruptions before waking at approximately 0600.
Soooo.....being an airline pilot AND having small kids at the same time is inevitably going to cause fatigue problems??? Well I agree entirely but what can we do?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 07:42   #7 (permalink)
 
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The really important bit is not to sleep too long. A lot of people think the longer you sleep the better. With controlled rest this is a dangerous assumption. It is extremely important that the nap be no longer than forty minutes. Sleep inertia may (I emphasize may) also have played a role in the Air India Express disaster. I have done a great deal of night flying over recent years and my experience is that a few minutes napping can be extremely helpful, but it needs to be carefully monitored.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 08:48   #8 (permalink)
 
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The best quote is off Yahoo saying that "The Air Canada pilot was apparently suffering from "sleep inertia" -- the stupor that follows a long nap -- when he sent the plane plunging some 400 feet in 46 seconds, throwing those not wearing safety belts out of their seats."

I'll remembed that insane VS next time I'm landing the Ikarus...
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 09:11   #9 (permalink)
 
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Lots of pilots have flashed the headlights at Venus
Recollect elderly BOAC skip saying "Isn't it just lorry drivers who do that sort of thing?"
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 09:40   #10 (permalink)
 
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Venus is now "Evening Star" not "Morning Star"

The 'Evening Star' is Back: How to Spot Venus | Space.com

So, since this pilot was heading eastbound, I find it hard to understand how he could have seen Venus, which, as an evening star, could only have been behind him.
I include myself among the "Old Fogeys" who could have been taken in by this Venus Talk since I remember many flights eastbound towards Asia when Venus did show herself as the morning star, and on seeing Venus we were encouraged that we were nearly home, for breakfast.
Now for a cycle Venus is an Evening Star.
Unfortunately most of us pilots are working so hard that we do not have time to study the universe that we live in.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 09:41   #11 (permalink)
 
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Aside from the serious issues of fatigue, it makes me feel fell much happier that as SLF I always have the belt on during cruise. (Despite what my wife thinks!)

Lurking....
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:02   #12 (permalink)
 
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Similar 'mistakes' made in the maritime world, where Venus is taken to be the stern light of another ship (when slightly above the horizon, a ship close by!).

Less dramatic consequences, of course .
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:05   #13 (permalink)
 
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Isn't it more likely to be Sirius - the brightest star in the sky - which often seems to be changing colour as it rises in the East and is therefore more easily confused with an aircraft?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:36   #14 (permalink)
 
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Does anyone else get the irony that an aircrew member took action to avoid Venus?




Once they land and get to the hotel they spend most of their time chasing it
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:42   #15 (permalink)
 
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Maybe....

My Sfo asked yesterday if Venus was an aircraft

And he was wide awake
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:54   #16 (permalink)
 
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I had an old friend who was a Wop/Ag on Lockheed Hudsons in 1941/2. He actually opened fire on Venus off the coast of Holland one night. He missed.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 10:56   #17 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW411
I had an old friend who was a Wop/Ag on Lockheed Hudsons in 1941/2. He actually opened fire on Venus off the coast of Holland one night. He missed.
How do you know?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 11:29   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What is an sfo?
A sleeping first officer or, maybe a little like Venus, an unidentified flying officer or object!

Seriously though I don't know anything about Air Canada's SOPS but surely they mandate a couple of minutes before an officer who has been sleeping is allowed to take control? This incident is just another marker in the long fatigue debate! Anybody for a 3rd pilot on certain flights?
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 11:41   #19 (permalink)
 
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This needs to be shoved and rubbed in EASAs face until they get the message to leave Euros FTL alone.
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Old 17th Apr 2012, 12:18   #20 (permalink)
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"An evening with Venus; a lifetime with Mercury....."
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