TFS closed due Norwegian B738 RTO
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TFS closed due Norwegian B738 RTO
Norwegian B738 at Tenerife on Nov 23rd 2015, rejected takeoff, both nose tyres burst.
Aviation Herald :Incident: Norwegian B738 at Tenerife on Nov 23rd 2015, rejected takeoff, both nose tyres burst
Appears to have re-opened now after several hours of closure.
Aviation Herald :Incident: Norwegian B738 at Tenerife on Nov 23rd 2015, rejected takeoff, both nose tyres burst
Appears to have re-opened now after several hours of closure.
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In such a scenario, after the diversion, what next? Does the a/c wait and the crew rest, until TFS is open; but then what, as the crew are now out of FTL's? Does the a/c return empty after the diversion, but what happens to the pax on the wrong island? Who organises and pays for their transfer? They had a contract to go to TFS, but equally the diversion is outside the control of the carrier. I'd read it that no delay compensation is payable, but the onward transport is at the behest of the original carrier, but how? Ferry? What about any overnight costs incurred on the wrong island? And what then happens to the pax waiting on TFS? Perhaps the saving grace is it's winter with spare crews and a/c at home base; and not middle of summer with none of either.
Is it so the lobster/crab tugs need inflated nose wheels to shift an a/c? Now there's a re-design asking to be developed.
Is it so the lobster/crab tugs need inflated nose wheels to shift an a/c? Now there's a re-design asking to be developed.
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I know someone who was on this flight. Very scary, apparently as there was a very loud bang followed by the RTO. Aircraft came to rest ~100m from the end of the runway so a very late rejection, by the sound of things (although stopping power is presumably reduced if you've no front tyres).
17 tonnes of fuel had to be offloaded before they could move it, too, adding to the delay.
17 tonnes of fuel had to be offloaded before they could move it, too, adding to the delay.
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Steering, however, might be a problem.
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Without getting into the whole speculation thing for this specific flight, what could cause both front tyres to blow like that? Presumably debris is more likely than a tyre or fitting fault if both went, or could one blowing take out the other?
I'm thinking they hit something on the runway that damaged the nose gear tires - and that's what caused the RTO.
It's pretty hard to imagine how an RTO that didn't exit the runway could cause nose gear tires to blow.
It's pretty hard to imagine how an RTO that didn't exit the runway could cause nose gear tires to blow.
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Very scary, apparently as there was a very loud bang followed by the RTO.
Is this suggesting the RTO was because of a loud bang, which was the nose wheel bursting? As they came to a stop so close to the end was this because of RTO brakes being disconnected, or because it was at a high speed? High speed RTO's due tyre bursts are a vibrant discussion topic.
I appreciate this will only be known inside NAS, but we could all learn, one day.
Is this suggesting the RTO was because of a loud bang, which was the nose wheel bursting? As they came to a stop so close to the end was this because of RTO brakes being disconnected, or because it was at a high speed? High speed RTO's due tyre bursts are a vibrant discussion topic.
I appreciate this will only be known inside NAS, but we could all learn, one day.
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Not sure why it resulted in a lengthy runway closure. Dealt with many an aircraft which had burst tyres and become disabled. Should be a couple of hours at the most to jack the aircraft up change the tryes and tow off. Not sure why they had to de fuel ? The only issue may be the wheels were on the rims and the jack could not get under the jacking points between the wheels but this can be easily rectified by altering the jack to sit lower to the ground.
High speed RTO after a tyre burst? SOP at my outfit is to continue if within 20 kts of V1, provided engine indications are normal, burn off fuel and land at a suitable airfield, preferably below MLW.
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re: easy to identify a tyre burst :
Some years ago I was ferrying a a BAe 146 with a manufacturers test pilot in the RHS as my F/O .
On landing , both tyres on the RHS main gear blew as the aircraft had just left maintenance and the engineers had connected the anti skid valves the wrong way round .
It was both difficult to keep it on the runway and ascertain what was going on .
Neither the test pilot nor I had any idea what really happened until we were off the runway and on the taxiway .The tower advised they had heard bangs and Fire 1 confirmed the tyre bursts .
In a larger jet on the take off roll , very difficult to ascertain with precision that a tyre has burst.
Some years ago I was ferrying a a BAe 146 with a manufacturers test pilot in the RHS as my F/O .
On landing , both tyres on the RHS main gear blew as the aircraft had just left maintenance and the engineers had connected the anti skid valves the wrong way round .
It was both difficult to keep it on the runway and ascertain what was going on .
Neither the test pilot nor I had any idea what really happened until we were off the runway and on the taxiway .The tower advised they had heard bangs and Fire 1 confirmed the tyre bursts .
In a larger jet on the take off roll , very difficult to ascertain with precision that a tyre has burst.
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I diverted due to this yesterday but managed to get in and out of TFS later with everyone working hard to clear the backlog. Not a clue as to the cause but it was a typically gusty day at TFS with wind 050/25G35 when I arrived which could have added to control problems during the RTO. Apparently the aircraft was too heavy to jack so they had to defuel before they could shift it. Hey ho, another day in the office and everyone safely looked after by their professional pilots.
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High speed RTO after a tyre burst? SOP at my outfit is to continue if within 20 kts of V1, provided engine indications are normal, burn off fuel and land at a suitable airfield, preferably below MLW.
And Boeing's advice too. Suitable airfield below MLW could well be destination. And if this was the cause of the RTO, a loud bang, and they ended up near the end of TFS Rwy, what would you have done at Lanzarote at the same speed?
And Boeing's advice too. Suitable airfield below MLW could well be destination. And if this was the cause of the RTO, a loud bang, and they ended up near the end of TFS Rwy, what would you have done at Lanzarote at the same speed?
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Totally different performance at Lanzagrotty. You're not likely to be at the same speed with the same amount of runway left so it's a bit of a daft question.
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Awfully complex chaps ! Are you lot really Professional pilots ? BANG before or at V1...................STOP ! Determined to be Tyre burst,........................lots of comms with company but then with not much progress, six hour break in a Hotel, top up the tan, extends the FTL stuff and then, Pleeeze G, no help, so min 12 hr rest while they sort it out and you head to Playas and party on ! Don't forget though, work out the "stop drinkin time " . Blimey, where has the fun gone ? Pax love it too.In my day, they will have been hotac'd to a higher standard than their own bucket & spade operators and will be waving to you, in the cockpit as they board for the second attempt.
High speed RTO's are hazardous, the suggestion above to stop just because you heard a BANG is ridiculous. Unless the noise of unknown origin is accompanied by unequivocal evidence of an engine failure leading to significant loss of thrust, engine fire, uninhibited Master Warning or Master Caution (above whatever your Company's SOP speed is) the take off is recommended to be continued. A stop with tyre damage approaching V1 is a gamble because retardation is degraded by this type of failure resulting in an unquantifiable increase in accelerate/stop distance....which may be in excess of that available.
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My friend on board says the bang occurred as he nose was lifted, followed by a huge amount of vibration. I honestly don't know if his recollection is correct, it seemed odd to me. I'm not a pilot but I thought that the nose was pulled up at V1 and V1 meant you were definitely taking off, but I'm happy to be corrected.
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High speed RTO's are hazardous, the suggestion above to stop just because you heard a BANG is ridiculous.