Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:27
  #5041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
New north/south corridor maps issued at today's press conference:



volcanicash is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:38
  #5042 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,884
Received 157 Likes on 50 Posts
If it's in the southern corridor, it may never be found.
SOPS is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:47
  #5043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Someone questioned how Capt Zaharie could have only 18,000+ hours if he joined airline in 1981 as it equates to 12 hours per week.
If you work on an average of 500 FLYING hours a year, then you would have expected the Captain to have 36 years' employment - which reconciles approximately with the length of his career to date.

That is 18,000 hours total flying experience, including his training and time employed as a first officer (co-pilot) before gaining a command (captain).

Naturally the hours he has worked in total, as with any job, will equate to far more than that. I think some of the low-cost carriers have a minimum working week of 55 hours, of which only 20-25 hours (at the most) will be flying time. The rest of the time is for briefings, preparing the aircraft and the time between flights
FlyingOfficerKite is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:56
  #5044 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On the topic of fuel , its very commen to carry enough fuel into china to get home again . Due to cost of fuel in china its cheaper to take return fuel from KL to Beijing that will get you home plus reserves . This may explain why they had empty seats but standby pax only got on due to no shoes . So 9 hours endurance would be normal for 4 hour flight for example . Cat B fuel .
Toruk Macto is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:57
  #5045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brazil
Age: 52
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Allright, good night

Malay Mail posted an update quoting MAS CEO saying that initial investigation indicate that those final words were spoken by the F.O. He also said that while last ACARS was sent at 1:07, it is not clear when it was switched off. This info seems to cast a doubt on what was published by many news sites that the ACARS was disabled before the last radio communication.
Diver-BR is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:58
  #5046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: high in the sky....
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just read this

I guess I will get flak for this question but:
Has it been absolutely & positively confirmed that the shown pilot & co-pilot were actually onboard & flying the aircraft at the start of the flight ?, I know possibly a ridiculous idea but could someone else have been flying the aircraft, substituting the listed crew at KL & has something happened to the original listed pilot & co, kidnapped, being held, part of the situation etc, I know this will get me grief but has anybody looked into that theory ? so many unanswered questions & as my previous posts, still no cargo manifest or info as to what was onboard, apologies if my question offends any one. PH.

I know its been flagged earier... but sounds coherent and plausable.... any views? Especially keeping in mind the point raised #5142?

Keith Ledgerwood ? Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68 (another 777)?

Last edited by aviator1970; 17th Mar 2014 at 11:09. Reason: additional information
aviator1970 is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:59
  #5047 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cape Town
Age: 60
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From the new information given at today's PC is seems that the last "All right" transmission may or may not have happened after ACARS was switched off/failed:

Last ACARS: 1:07am
Next expected ACARS: 1:37am - this did not happen so switched off/failed somewhere in between

"All right" message: 1:19am so this could be either before OR after ACARS was switched off/failed. When probed by a journo the Minister did not want to go into it which is strange to say the least - is there some other info not being shared with us on this as to my knowledge they were saying that it was switched off before the "All right" message.
Tallman is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 10:59
  #5048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
Age: 70
Posts: 1,319
Received 24 Likes on 13 Posts
I understand that a/c carry a manually deployable ELT unit. If this is correct if activated inside the cabin would the signal be detectable ?
Mr Optimistic is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:02
  #5049 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,884
Received 157 Likes on 50 Posts
I don't even understand why the sequence of what order the shut down of equipment and radio transmissions even matters. Can some one please explain what I'm missing?
SOPS is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:02
  #5050 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: England
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Speaking as a dumb pax, I’ve been appalled/astonished to learn from all this that comms/tracking systems can be simply ‘switched off’. So if the mod’s will permit:

1. Under what circumstances (terrorism aside) would these systems be switched off by crew?

2. Putting aside the who/why of the MH370disappearance, what do you pilots want or anticipate will happen with these systems in the future? Will they or should they be configured so that they can never be turned off?

From my angle, I’d feel a wee bit safer if I thought that my flight was always broadcasting its location.
grassyknell is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:07
  #5051 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Behind you all the way!
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FE Hoppy

And how much further could you go at ECON Cost Index 0 for the same fuel load?

If your speed was 0, indeed you're going nowhere, but for the purposes of establishing a search area, I think assuming the speed of the aircraft was 0 is irrelevant.

All anyone can do is:

Look at how much more than Flight Plan fuel was loaded.

Take the FOB (Fuel On Board) figure from the last ACARS position report or estimate it from the PLOG at the waypoint where the ATC handover took place if the ACARS didn't report it, amending for any extra uplift of fuel, pre-departure.

Establish Maximum & Minimum Range markers based on facts including potential crew instigated cruising Mach/IAS variation techniques (ECON CI '0', LRC, Mmo etc.) & 'best guessed' fuel on board for endurance from the last known position.

When new information comes to light such as the aircraft may have been 'Terrain Masking' it would probably add a much smaller 'theoretical' range than originally thought because of the increased fuel burn at low level, ergo reducing range.

Using 'Minimum Airspeed 0' will only keep you at the last KNOWN position. And it aint there.
DADDY-OH! is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:08
  #5052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aviator1970

Wouldn’t the SIA68 flight have detected MH370? NO! The Boeing 777 utilizes a TCAS system for traffic avoidance; the system would ordinarily provide alerts and visualization to pilots if another airplane was too close. However that system only operates by receiving the transponder information from other planes and displaying it for the pilot. If MH370 was flying without the transponder, it would have been invisible to SIA68.

In addition, the TCAS system onboard MH370 would have enabled the pilot(s) to easily locate and approach SIA68 over the Straits of Malacca as they appeared to have done. The system would have shown them the flight’s direction of travel and the altitude it was traveling which would have enabled them to perfectly time an intercept right behind the other Boeing 777. Here is a picture of a TCAS system onboard a 777.
It won't work if it's turned off but it's turned on so they can locate the SIA which means...?
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:09
  #5053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
lack of pings

Originally Posted by Ana1936
I wish the journalists would ask for the info on the other pings.
The lack of info on previous pings from MH370 might mean:

1 - the data is not available. Seems unlikely
2 - the data doesn't correlate with other known observations and is regarded as irrelevant.
3 - the data is not being released because it might compromise something happening behind the scenes.

Given that the aircraft tracked eastwards initially, perhaps the POR satellite picked up its signals, rather than IOR. Furthermore, if this happened during climb prior to ACARS becoming disabled, there would probably be some useful data to look at. The collective expertise of others on this forum might well hold the key to solving this puzzle, given the right information.
Seat 32F is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:10
  #5054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Västerås
Age: 44
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DADDY-OH!
Using 'Minimum Airspeed 0' will only keep you at the last KNOWN position. And it aint there.
It will of course not. You can fly for 30 minutes, then crash. You can fly for 1 hour, then crash etc.
sandos is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:12
  #5055 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: France - mostly
Age: 84
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am just an occasional visitor of this thread looking for any substantial development in this mysterious disappearance.

Can someone please explain to me the origin of the 'corridors'?

I understand that the red circle represents the distance between the airplane and the satellite at the time of the last 'ping'. I suppose there is another circle centered on the position of the aircraft at the last radar contact, and a radius equal to the distance flown in the time between the last radar contact and the last ping. So the last possible positions of the aircraft are the two intersections of these two circles or somewhere in between. Why would the airplane proceed from these points along the red circle?

Last edited by HazelNuts39; 17th Mar 2014 at 11:24.
HazelNuts39 is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:14
  #5056 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@ DADDY-OH

If you use the minimum flight speed to define the nearest point on the arc you are neglecting the fact that the aircraft could fly in circle at the minimum flight speed rather than a straight line.

I know having spend far too many hours flying in circles in large aircraft.
FE Hoppy is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:14
  #5057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
Age: 70
Posts: 1,319
Received 24 Likes on 13 Posts
Terrain masking? Couldn't a descent be in response to depressurization, or at least announced to pax as such if nefarious to keep up appearances?
Mr Optimistic is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:15
  #5058 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Antipodes Islands
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It won't work if it's turned off but it's turned on so they can locate the SIA which means...?
A laptop with a $20 USB radio receiver can pick up and display ADS-B data no problems. No need to turn on any active systems.
Mahatma Kote is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:16
  #5059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Usually on top
Posts: 176
Received 16 Likes on 6 Posts
Every device that draws power from the airplane's electrical system needs to be able to be switched off or at least needs to have circuit breaker which trips or can be manually pulled in case something in the device shorts. This CB trips ideally before a fire erupts. Fire and airplanes are a bad combination and have on far greater occasions led to tragedy than terrorism or auto-hijacks have.

If anything, we should be seriously reconsidering the hijack proof doors, as many have noted, once someone is in there who's crazy, nobody can get to them to stop them. At least in the days of the plastic toilet doors, there was an easy way in.
physicus is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2014, 11:20
  #5060 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: high in the sky....
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Airfields in Southern Indian Ocean

any list of old disused/abandoned airfields of any vintage in the southern Indian Ocean? I am sure its been discussed...
aviator1970 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.