Sabenaboy, did your captain take into account the fact that the fuel would be much warmer than the OAT and that the outer tank fuel would warm up even more in case of extended ground ops due to the heated fuel being returned from the IDG's?
aerobat 77, I will defer to your greater knowledge of Piper Senecas & Seminoles, but please, stop making an ass of yourself & taking the rest of us for a bunch of imbeciles, by continuing with the facade that this video showed anything other than, a criminal dereliction of his duty of care to his passengers by the PIC.
This horse-manure about maybe it was de-iced /maybe they checked what was under the snow/it blew off, what was the problem ? etc etc is becoming a bit tedious. It is (I sincerely hope ) quite obvious that you have no practical experience, & pretty much b*gger all knowledge, regarding Winter Ops/Swept wing Public Transport jets, so please, "Walter Mitty" yourself onto a more suitable thread where some unfortunate may actually take you seriously.
For each mission there is a purpose, with which every flight operation is calibrated. For example, I quote an old ex-Sabena flight instructor, I made the transition to the B-737 300 on the simulator with. He included in his lessons one where you had to take off with a single engine ... ("Who knows?! It may happen one day that you have to depart from an airport in a rush due to war). A very different case is the one of the flight to be carried from A to B with a load of paying passengers who are entitled to maximum security, regularity, comfort and economy. I will never forget one of those winter nights when we were about to leave from an airport in Southern Europe, while a snowstorm raged. In addition to the usual preparatory operations we had to:
- Get in line for the de-icing
- Wait, if necessary, for the runway in use and taxiways to be cleared from snow.
- Based on the estimated time of completion of the above procedures, request a slot for departure.
- Calculating the result of all of this to decide on the passenger boarding time
(It is now clear that the punctuality of flight had gone). It's obvious that it was wishful thinking the synchronization of all the above operations . If the runway had been cleared, the plane was not yet being deiced / anti-iced, or vice versa, or the slot provided was expired and reassigned half an hour later, and then we had to go back to the starting point. If the passengers had boarded, we had to invite them (risking a complaint for kidnapping) to stay on board for not losing the priority acquired; maybe we prayed the flight attendants to serve a refreshment. Finally everything was ready to start (there was a tyrannical "holdover time"), but not without having alerted the Purser not to hesitate to advise if he saw some snow on the wings. And then (correct me if I'm wrong or if something has changed): There were extraordinary procedures to apply: special operations, "Cold Weather Operations" and "T.O. and Landing on Contaminated Rwys ". They had to be performed, with the contribution of PF and PNF; a flight controls test at the beginning and at the end of taxi, a maneuver of extension and retraction of the flaps / slats, the activation of Engine Anti-ice (with engine run-up every ten minutes to remove any ice formed on the intake of the engines and on PT2 probes), and the preselection of the Airfoil anti-ice, after start. After rotation we were expected to cycle the ďretraction / extension / retractionĒ of the under carriage in order to shake away the slush. It's clear that avoiding all of this fuss made life much more easy, and I confess that more than once I found myself in the embarrassing position to explain to some of my passenger: "This guy did not perform the deicing, while we are having such a delay ... " Invariably I said: "Safety is our first goal."
In conclusion that crew has:
- Put at risk their own lives, those of their passengers, and perhaps those of others on the ground
- Risked to produce an immeasurable economic damage
- Put a stain on the good name and honor of their company, their colleagues and the pilots all over the world.
- Given a bad example of unruliness and airmanship especially to those of us who are joining this wonderful profession.
Finally. Extract from the question data base for the issue of a ULM pilot license:
-The frost has not been removed from the ULM surfaces before flight: A) It does not create problems, as it is swept away with the speed increase in the take-off run. B) may cause a take-off with an angle of incidence and an IAS below the normal values C) causes a variation of the curvature of the airfoil, with a consequent increase in lift during take-off D) may affect the safety of the flight since take-off trajectory.
"Last bat not least," I quote my Navigation Code: The commander of a flight must ensure the perfect airworthiness... the correct supply of fluids ... the complete absence of any contaminant from surfaces of the aircraft.
Amazing what one, of little imagination, can assume from a "user-name".
Well, I don't put PA34/PA42 on my profile, but 17400 inc 13200 command on B737 does perhaps justify me calling "Tosh" when it patently is. But then, I didn't post a pretty picture above the clouds, so guess I am just a "dreamer"
I have family in Russia so I tend to do the LHR to SVO or DME trip quite a lot of times.
I wont comment on the aircraft's airworthiness as 1. I'm not a pilot and 2. I dont need to. If pilots like Captplaystation say its unsafe I'll take their word for it.
What I will comment on is that the video clip scared me. How badly did it scare me? Enough for me to want to fly on any other airline than Aeroflot. SLF power!
If anyone in Aeroflot is listening then you have a lot of PR work to do to get the likes of me flying with you again. If Aeroflot's idea of PR is to set loose someone in this site with the express intent of disinformation, then think again. It compounds the problem.
I don't know about this situation because I wasn't there (although the amount of snow seems a little bit much). I can assure you however that spraying hot liquid on DRY POWDER snow below -10 degrees is worse than leaving it be. Take a broom to it, or in a quick turn just a tactile inspection is all you need. I have 40 Canadian winters under my belt, 20 of them as a pilot...trust me.
Far out. I fly a lightie in a warm/hot climate where ice will never be an issue to my flying, but even in this case my instructor drilled into me right from my first or second lesson "NEVER take of with snow, ice, dirt, lots of bugs or ANY other contaminant on the wing" If it was me sitting in the seat of the guy filming this video I would have made them let me off the plane, f*** how ever much I paid for the damned ticket. However if I was in this situation two years ago before I started flying I probably wouldn't have thought much of it at all. Scary......
Hi! I am a pilot from Aeroflot. I would like to add some comments about this video. Many Aeroflot pilots and I were very shocked after watching this video. We have been discussing it on our forum as well, and I think it will not be unpunished.
A particularly apt and fitting punishment would be for them (pilots and company directors of AFL) to visit that freezing field in Tiumenskaya oblast, then meet the next of kin, and friends/family of the UT ex-pilots.
* Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: russia, moscow Posts: 5 Hi! I am a pilot from Aeroflot. I would like to add some comments about this video. Many Aeroflot pilots and I were very shocked after watching this video. We have been discussing it on our forum as well, and I think it will not be unpunished.
I think it is very good news that some of your Airline pilots have noticed this video and are discussing it. In no way do I believe in generalization of such a dangerous act,(ie all aeroflot pilots are that reckless) but it is your duty to get to the bottom of it. A picture of the aircraft in the beginning of the rolling take off placed in your main base briefing room would be a good start;-) with a note...the aviation world knows about it;-)
On another note, my significant other used your airline,,,please do something about the CA service..terrible apparently,she said it made the luftwaffe look like angels...she said Qatar is the best.