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Old 13th Apr 2012, 23:17   #221 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I don't know about the "unusual" characterization; there seem to plenty of otherwise intelligent people posting here who are so afflicted. I guess it is necessary for them to acknowledge that their belief in the ability of guns to act without human intervention before it can be classified as a true phobia, but believing that guns corrode a person's ability to think rationally is close to the same thing.
It's more of a cultural thing here, cemented into the psyche from childhood over a millenia's worth of generations that the "peasantry" or "commoners" shant possess weaponry that would allow them to poach the king's deer or revolt against their "rightful" overlords. It trancends mere brainwashing. With that foundation, it's morphed into today's "Why, they're simply too dangerous. I can defend myself with a niblick if it comes to that..and so should everyone else be forced to". The notion that it's an inherent Right...well, that philosophy just can't be fathomed let alone embraced by anyone still clinging to dusty, old notions like Monarchy and Aristocracy by birthright and that government is something you kneel before seeking favor while it doles out conditions for one's existence.. That's where all the tut-tutting and finger-wagging comes from; if they can't have one ( the Right and/or the weapon), then neither should you.

That's why, to us, it walks like a phobia and talks like a phobia.
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Old 13th Apr 2012, 23:26   #222 (permalink)
 
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Oooooh, yes they can. The official verdict will be ignored by the Court of PPRuNe.

Just watch.
I believe you've broken the code.

In addition to the present grand jury indictment you can bet there are several federal law enforcement officers working to determine whether there is probable cause to also file for failure to report treatment and medication for a medical condition.
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Old 15th Apr 2012, 21:51   #223 (permalink)
 
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I think if every pilot who has conveniently forgot he didn't fill out his medical form every 6 months 100% correctly and got busted we would lose over 20% of our airline pilots.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 02:05   #224 (permalink)
 
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That is exactly true. I think the key word here is forgot, if you know what I mean.
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Old 16th Apr 2012, 02:13   #225 (permalink)
 
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That is exactly true. I think the key word here is forgot, if you know what I mean.
Yep, my AME has given me that advice. Don't bore the feds with detail unless you like writing letters to Oklahoma City.

Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
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Old 18th Apr 2012, 23:13   #226 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
JetBlue pilot to use insanity defense

By Aaron Cooper, CNN

updated 6:19 PM EDT, Wed April 18, 2012

(CNN) -- Clayton Osbon, the JetBlue pilot who was restrained by passengers after he left the cockpit and acted erratically during a flight last month, will use an insanity defense, according to court documents filed Wednesday by his attorney Dean Roper.

CNN contacted Roper's office, but was told the attorney was unavailable and would not be commenting...
More here: JetBlue pilot to use insanity defense - CNN.com

Earlier on this thread I observed:

Quote:
It might not even go to a federal grand jury if the U.S. Attorney decides not to proceed with the indictment.
Well, as reported above, it did go to a grand jury and Captain Osborn was charged with one felony count of interference with flight crew (Violation of 49 USC 46504) in an indictment filed last week.

Some discussion of jurisdiction and venue on this charge is here:

USAM 9-63.000 Protection of Public Order

Here is a cite for the law itself:

49 USC 46504 - Interference with flight crew members and attendants | LII / Legal Information Institute

Last edited by Airbubba; 19th Apr 2012 at 00:00.
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Old 19th Apr 2012, 13:53   #227 (permalink)
 
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I read this morning that Captain Osborn intends to plead not guity by reason of insanity. That plea seldom works, especially in federal court. But, it is the only hope that the defense has of presenting any sort of case to the jury. If the jury buys the plea then the feds will lock him up in a mental hospital until such time that he can prove himself sane.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 17:21   #228 (permalink)
 
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The lawsuits have begun .....

JetBlue passengers sue airline over pilot scare

By FRANK ELTMAN
Associated Press

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. (AP) -- Ten passengers filed a lawsuit Wednesday against JetBlue Airways, claiming they feared for their lives when a pilot had to be physically restrained after running through the cabin yelling about Jesus and al-Qaida during a New York-to-Las Vegas flight in March.

The lawsuit, filed in state Supreme Court in Queens, claims the airline was "grossly negligent" in allowing Capt. Clayton Osbon to fly.


The lawsuit claims JetBlue knew or should have known he was unfit to be entrusted with the aircraft as pilot.

The 10 plaintiffs, all from the metropolitan New York area, are seeking unspecified damages for emotional distress.
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Old 13th Jun 2012, 20:15   #229 (permalink)
 
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I don't doubt that the entire incident was extremely distressing for the passengers concerned.

Whether or not the airline could have foreseen the behavior of the Captain is another matter.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 02:18   #230 (permalink)
 
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The Lawyers are making a living off this. They are just looking at their accounts receivable. End of subject.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 05:26   #231 (permalink)
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This is beginning to really annoy me. And it takes a lot to make me serious. But this bloke became ILL. He showed symptoms of being ill. If these symptoms distress anyone, FFS, suck it up, that's what the symptoms do.


If he'd had a gall bladder go bad on him, he may well have been lying on the floor screaming. The poor darlings in the back might have had more sympathy for straightforward pain, but it would be just another organ misbehaving - in the literal sense. Heart attack. Well all know those symptoms . . . don't we? Poor chap. Dickie heart. To be pitied.

When the brain plays up - the most complex organ in the body, by many orders of magnitude - it causes bizarre symptoms, and great distress to the sufferer and to those around him/her. It just has to be coped with by the hopefully, competent crew. Job done - at least for those not burdened in the long term.

And as for the people running to lawyers. Get a grip. But you won't, will you? Not when there's $$$$$$$$$ signs on the horizon.

Not a thought for the poor sod who is, or was, ILL.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 10:34   #232 (permalink)
 
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Absolutely.

I thought mental illness was being less stigmatised (I'm a sufferer too), but apparantly not.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 10:39   #233 (permalink)
 
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All I can say is it's a good thing it wasn't a flight from California, lawsuit capital of the world. But as with most things of this sort, for the airline it's a matter of whether it's cheaper to settle or litigate.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 14:35   #234 (permalink)

 
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I'm sure jetblue will lose this court case...they should settle right now and get it out of the headlines.

anyone remember when the sister of a famous film maker sued American for turbulence and got over 2 million dollars? (spielberg was film maker in question). DC10 near Detroit hit T storm, dropped and people screamed...she won pretty fast.

those of us who have been around the block have seen some pretty wacky guys out there. some of us have actually gone to chief pilots and said something like: are you sure so and so is OK? Or : why does so and so like to cancel IFR? (at a big airline...yup).


But nothing is done...why? Sometimes UNIONS will spend a fortune defending a guy who isn't very good, but is smart enought to threaten to sue the union.

OF course jetblue pilots don't have a union.

With all the video, I think this court case will be open and shut...especially if tried in the court of public opinion first.

Funny how jet blue has high marks for customer service, low marks for pilots and USAIR has high marks for pilots (sully) and low marks for customer service.
I'll fly USAIR before jetblue anyday.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 21:30   #235 (permalink)
 
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Yes of course Osborn was ill. The lawyers are no doubt circling. He did put the flight in danger.

However, if there is a crew member with a health condition, be it mental or physical, which could endanger the flight, and that this health condition would be reasonably foreseeable to the company as having the potential to endanger the flight then the lawyers have won.

Its quite irrelevant whether the illness is mental or otherwise.
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Old 14th Jun 2012, 23:47   #236 (permalink)
 
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Loose rivits:

Quote:
When the brain plays up - the most complex organ in the body, by many orders of magnitude - it causes bizarre symptoms, and great distress to the sufferer and to those around him/her. It just has to be coped with by the hopefully, competent crew. Job done - at least for those not burdened in the long term.
What we don't know but will in the future is whether he had prior knowledge of his mental condition and had not reported it on his 6-month FAA medical.

Last edited by aterpster; 14th Jun 2012 at 23:48.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 02:13   #237 (permalink)
 
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Jeezo, can we at least get his name right? It's OSBON, not Osborn.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 02:54   #238 (permalink)
 
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Jeezo, can we at least get his name right? It's OSBON, not Osborn.
Some are watching too much telly
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 03:22   #239 (permalink)
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What we don't know but will in the future is whether he had prior knowledge of his mental condition and had not reported it on his 6-month FAA medical.

Quite so.









.

Last edited by Loose rivets; 15th Jun 2012 at 03:23.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 08:42   #240 (permalink)
 
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And now the American curse of vexatious litigation has arrived in the UK, with all those ads on TV that go "too stupid to look where you're going? Tripped? You could be due compensation! Call us - we're Shysters-for-You...!" A class action for millions because some bunch of self-agrandising ego-maniacs got a bit upset after a fellow human being clearly found himself in a place he couldn't cope with...? Tell them to read the newspapers and ask themselved if getting frightened on an aircraft matches getting shelled by your own government in Syria. There again, maybe they've got the right idea. Maybe, when I look in the hotel mirror after a Cancun bullet, I should think about sueing Pilkington Glass who make the mirror, because what I see scares the crap of me, I can tell you.
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