Ash clouds threaten air traffic

[Squawk_ident]

French airports to be closed in the North of the country

Lille LFQQ has closed already
Paris LFPG/PO/will close this evening at 2100Z media report. May be for a couple of days. Other airports in the North are /will close also

[srobarts]

This site which normally shows the area surrounding Heathrow has changing views which show how deserted the skies are over the UK and Scandinavia.

AirNav RadarBox - Screen Shot refreshed Every minute

Here in North Hampshire we have just had a wokka over the village and the odd GA aircraft. Have had to pour myself a glass of wine to take the sulphur taste away.

[Just a spotter]

The chief pilot at Sussex and Surrey [Air Ambulance], Steve Wood, said the restrictions were a "complete over-reaction".

Over-reaction claim as flights grounded until at least 7am Friday - VIDEO - Yorkshire Post

JAS

[cldrvr]

BBC reported Eurocontrol now talking 48 hrs min. Update from them at 1830z, France has 24 closed airports and counting.

[ACARS]

So let's start debating.

Over reaction or the right move?

I think some people will naturally say it's been an over reaction because they haven't seen the sky darken with the ash cloud!!

I trust that the proffessionals have made the right decision on this one.

[dwshimoda]

Carjockey...

Perhaps stick to driving cars?

Nature's Gritblaster
Lomapaseo

I think that the operating temperature of the engines would not be a factor.



CJ

Rather than simply posting a few quotes, either do your research properly, or actually understand how jet engines work, including the various temperatures at different stages of their operation, and then perhaps you may be qualified to dispute Lompaseos post.

Your statement about a 500kt sand blaster makes more sense, although more like 250KIAS in reality.

[ChalfontFlyer]

ACARS - In a way we will never know for sure...as it would just have needed a repeat (at the very least) of the BA 747 incident back in the 80''s.

[proxus]

Here's the source of this all. (Don't know if this picture has been posted here before)



Vsir.is - Mynd me grein

[AVNBROKER]

So what's the difference between this very fine volcanic dust and the very fine sand which gets blown in from the sahara after sand storms? Presumably both are equally as abrasive and judging by the quantities accreting on my car in the past, in probably just as high a concentration.

[Admiral346]

Maybe some of you remember - about 4-6 weeks ago european ATC had a trial of closing airspace due to volcanic ash. There were pages and pages of NOTAMs all marked with "Excercise only" about an ash cloud approaching Europe from somewhere in the SW. Maybe Canaries or Azores, I forgot.

Seems like they were well prepared and had tried out the contingency plans, but I do agree with some of the posts above - maybe it is a bit too much caused partly by preset minds due to the exercise.
On the other hand - better safe than sorry! I'd hate to have my engines flame out on me, the winshield going blind, and then try to put it down somewhere...

But as I am off until monday, I will just sit in my chair and watch the developments -

Nic

[Squealing Pig]

Your statement about a 500kt sand blaster makes more sense, although more like 250KIAS in reality

Not really, the ash particals will still be hitting the airframe at TAS regardless of what IAS is

[peter we]

On the other hand - better safe than sorry! I'd hate to have my engines flame out on me, the winshield going blind, and then try to put it down somewhere...

Well, its not just that is it? you would have to check the internals to find out what exactly what damage has been done as we have no idea what the ash will do. And its not just the engines that could be damaged.

[dwshimoda]

Point taken!

But it would still be 250KIAS!

[justanotherflyer]

There's a fine layer of dust covering my car and the other half's, and all the garden furniture..... I wonder is this the Icelandic ash depostion - sure looks grim enough to gum up the works of a turbofan, glad I'm not up there today.



UPDATE 1728z:

Erm, no...... the missus tells me that's the crap she's been begging me to clean for a couple of weeks....

[cessnapete]

volcanic ash ?

Health and safety gone mad! Tried to go to Jersey VFR this afternnoon from South coast area. Severe clear blue skies for low level VFR traffic. Not a bit of ash to be seen.
They have closed the Zone not even S/VFR available, you can't even do circuits from the loacal Aero Club. Complete and utter overreaction for low level traffic in the UK FIR' s.

[Bearcat]

I'm off to the boozer to enjoy a few pints and enjoy the spring clear blue skies sunshine.....

[Nemrytter]

cessnapete, as I have said innumerable times already today: Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. If you spent some time flying through the stuff (i.e: across Britain or transAtlantic) then your aircraft would notice the effects.

I doubt that there's enough ash aronud to actually bring an aircraft down due to engine failure or anything like that, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I know that all the people complaining that this is an overreaction would be the first to complain about 'underaction' should anything go wrong due to aircraft ingesting ash.

[Pandy]

Booking Engines

I bit off subject I know but it would appear the airlines were knew what could / would happen well before we did.

I'm trying to get back to the UK from DXB on Tuesday next! Yeah well one lives in hope

Using the EK booking engine early yesterday - all flights were blocked out for days next week, thought it was a glitch & gave up. BA was also showing prices in the stratosphere (like the ash) & the rest were either zero availability or silly prices right through next week.

Now conclude what I thought was a glitch (or some event I didn't know of) was obviously known about by the airlines well before Joe Public.

Now, checking all the other main players sites (BA, GF, QR, VS etc) everything is zero availability until at least Monday (GF) & eye watering fares thereafter; for pretty obvious reasons.

So I tried KLM & Air France all of which came up with quite sensible fares if I gave my (real) destination as BRS, but very much the same result as LHR if I gave CDG or AMS as my destination. From this it appears changing fares on a website on a point to point basis is relatively easy but (assume) the problems start with connections.

Just for the record the solution to my problem was a one way LoCo Air Arabia to ATH and EZY to LGW about 1/8 of the normal cost (well plus a hotel in ATH)

[Stoic]

Ils27left

I do not think this is over reaction at all.

The difference is surely that Heathrow, where the airspace is closed, is approximately 1000 miles from Eyjafjallajoekull and any ash will be heavily diluted whilst the BA009 flew close to Mount Galunggung where the density the ash cloud was relatively very intense. It will be interesting to see the analysese of ash densities when they are published.

[nathanroberts2K8]

Affects jet engines but......

Hello, I've not been on here for a very long while, I would like to ask any of the qualified PPL's or commercial pilots on here whether or not the ash particles would substantially affect a prop plane of any kind as a pose to a jet engined plane?

If it would not, i presume because a prop is a completely different process than a jet engine, do the airline companies not have any form of contingency process whereby they can use larger multi prop planes instead, similar to the ones that, for example, British Airways use for some regional uk flights etc?.

Just a thought.

Kind Regards to you all

Nathan.