R44 Cadet
Here are my photos of the R44 Cadet from a few weeks ago at Heli Expo 2016,
cheers
cheers
Thread Starter
Thanks chopper2004,
Have you got some pics of the back ? that's the most interesting part of the Cadet
At the front, I can see an Aspen EFD, an Ipad on the left side and a Garmin Gps on the right side, not bad.
Have you got some pics of the back ? that's the most interesting part of the Cadet
At the front, I can see an Aspen EFD, an Ipad on the left side and a Garmin Gps on the right side, not bad.
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Originally Posted by HeliHenri
Have you got some pics of the back ? that's the most interesting part of the Cadet
From Vertical Magazine's recent feature on the type (click for une version plus grande):
I/C
Thread Starter
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The Cadet is now FAA certified, basic price is 339,000 $ ( from HeliHub.com : HeliHub FAA certifies Robinson R44 Cadet)
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The Cadet is now FAA certified, basic price is 339,000 $ ( from HeliHub.com : HeliHub FAA certifies Robinson R44 Cadet)
.
Crapinson Flimsicopter
Thread Starter
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Hello VF,
We have already discussed this subject but it's a fact, your countrymen prefer (and by far) the R22 and now the cadet to the G2, they have their reasons.
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Hello VF,
We have already discussed this subject but it's a fact, your countrymen prefer (and by far) the R22 and now the cadet to the G2, they have their reasons.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2016 at 12:13.
& the Almighty dollar$ rule: safety & lives don't 
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Cadet - Too Expensive
It's a very simple problem; it's too expensive and too close in price to a new raven 1 or a newly rebuilt raven 1 or 2. In this context why would you buy one?
It's price seems to have been set to compete with the cabri, but the cabri itself is ridiculously expensive. Great product, but designed with scant regard for cost.
Robinson gets a great price on its engines from lycoming and the airframes are inexpensive to manufacture, they can afford to make this machine much cheaper.
If they price it at $250K they will sell at least 200 units per year and hurt cabri production.
It seems to that since the 2007 crash Robinson production (and others) has never really recovered. My view is that their annual above inflation price increases have finally pushed their products out of reach of the customer demographic that the business was built on.
When the R22 was introduced it cost less (in relative terms) than I paid for my Range Rover....
Come on Kurt, price it intelligently and you can have an order for serial number 30012 tomorrow!
It's price seems to have been set to compete with the cabri, but the cabri itself is ridiculously expensive. Great product, but designed with scant regard for cost.
Robinson gets a great price on its engines from lycoming and the airframes are inexpensive to manufacture, they can afford to make this machine much cheaper.
If they price it at $250K they will sell at least 200 units per year and hurt cabri production.
It seems to that since the 2007 crash Robinson production (and others) has never really recovered. My view is that their annual above inflation price increases have finally pushed their products out of reach of the customer demographic that the business was built on.
When the R22 was introduced it cost less (in relative terms) than I paid for my Range Rover....
Come on Kurt, price it intelligently and you can have an order for serial number 30012 tomorrow!
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Old school +1 to what CRAN said.
As someone who is actively in the market for a 44 right now, it might be, however, that the price point for new 44's could be just about right. As a primarily recreational flyer I'm looking for a partner. Two people I've approached so far and both of them only want a brand new machine with glass and seem happy to pay the price. Both have walked away from a couple of smoking deals on some fresh overhauls, each sold in under two weeks.
I really would prefer at least one partner as it simply doesn't make financial sense otherwise (well, it doesn't make financial sense, period, but you know what I mean). But the demographic is tough around here. Most non-career types who are in a financial position to obtain their helicopter rating apparently have enough money to just go out and buy a spankin' new ship.
As someone who is actively in the market for a 44 right now, it might be, however, that the price point for new 44's could be just about right. As a primarily recreational flyer I'm looking for a partner. Two people I've approached so far and both of them only want a brand new machine with glass and seem happy to pay the price. Both have walked away from a couple of smoking deals on some fresh overhauls, each sold in under two weeks.
I really would prefer at least one partner as it simply doesn't make financial sense otherwise (well, it doesn't make financial sense, period, but you know what I mean
). But the demographic is tough around here. Most non-career types who are in a financial position to obtain their helicopter rating apparently have enough money to just go out and buy a spankin' new ship.
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It's price seems to have been set to compete with the cabri, but the cabri itself is ridiculously expensive.
The price of Recreational Helicopters
I recall a comment from Bruno Guimbal a year or so ago, when he said:
"The market appears to be trust sensitive, rather than price sensitive..."
IMHO this is a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the facts...his machine is priced ABOVE the part of the market that is price sensitive! His clients are flying schools that lease machines and work them hard, or very wealthy individuals. The VAST majority of private pilots and would-be owners cannot afford anything like the price of a new R22, R44C, R44R1 or R44R2 or Cabri. These machines have all drifted in the realm of the very-wealthy which is a MUCH smaller market.
Then there is the 12-year depreciation issue for private owners and the blade issues and the corrosion issue if you live anywhere other than a desert!
R22 was introduced in 1979 with a base price of $40,000, that's $133,018.18 in todays dollars according to Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2016. (Actual list price today is $288,000, more than double!)
When the R22 was introduced at the original price point they were selling 500 per year and couldn't build them fast enough!
At less than $150K we are into performance car money and there is a market for 100,000's of those per year and lots of professional and small business owners are willing to spend that kind of money. If you then look at today's price of the R44 Cadet we are talking about $339,000, that's supercar money...now just 10% of those performance car buyers can afford your product. Of course if you then build-in an expensive fixed 12-year, rather than 2000-hr overhaul requirement then you have huge running costs also). Its all just drifted out of reach for Robinson's original target market.
If Robinson want to see a return of their volume production they need to reconnect with their customer base. Not only has the cost of purchasing their machine moved out of reach of their target market, the running costs for private owners has massively increased due to the escalating cost of overhaul.
I think Robinson is at risk of 'slipping onto the backside of the financial power curve'. Their products have been pushed up in price gradually over the last 30 years gradually alienating their 'true' client base. Since the 2007 financial crash this has resulted in a major slow down in demand, which in turn increases the effective cost of production...now its difficult to drop the price to stimulate demand...and so on.
If you drift into the realm were cost doesn't really matter to your customers, then they'll just buy the best...how will the R44 and R66 stack up against a Guimabl G4, which will doubtless be pretty, crashworthy, 3-bladed and quiet.
Of course Monsieur Guimbal may also choose to exploit the fact that the Lycoming O-540-F1B5 used in the Raven 1 is actually approved for automotive fuel so the fuel cost of your four seat helicopter outside of the USA could be reduced by up to 40%! Why Robinson hasn't sorted this out is also completely beyond me.
Just my 2p worth!
"The market appears to be trust sensitive, rather than price sensitive..."
IMHO this is a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the facts...his machine is priced ABOVE the part of the market that is price sensitive! His clients are flying schools that lease machines and work them hard, or very wealthy individuals. The VAST majority of private pilots and would-be owners cannot afford anything like the price of a new R22, R44C, R44R1 or R44R2 or Cabri. These machines have all drifted in the realm of the very-wealthy which is a MUCH smaller market.
Then there is the 12-year depreciation issue for private owners and the blade issues and the corrosion issue if you live anywhere other than a desert!
R22 was introduced in 1979 with a base price of $40,000, that's $133,018.18 in todays dollars according to Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2016. (Actual list price today is $288,000, more than double!)
When the R22 was introduced at the original price point they were selling 500 per year and couldn't build them fast enough!
At less than $150K we are into performance car money and there is a market for 100,000's of those per year and lots of professional and small business owners are willing to spend that kind of money. If you then look at today's price of the R44 Cadet we are talking about $339,000, that's supercar money...now just 10% of those performance car buyers can afford your product. Of course if you then build-in an expensive fixed 12-year, rather than 2000-hr overhaul requirement then you have huge running costs also). Its all just drifted out of reach for Robinson's original target market.
If Robinson want to see a return of their volume production they need to reconnect with their customer base. Not only has the cost of purchasing their machine moved out of reach of their target market, the running costs for private owners has massively increased due to the escalating cost of overhaul.
I think Robinson is at risk of 'slipping onto the backside of the financial power curve'. Their products have been pushed up in price gradually over the last 30 years gradually alienating their 'true' client base. Since the 2007 financial crash this has resulted in a major slow down in demand, which in turn increases the effective cost of production...now its difficult to drop the price to stimulate demand...and so on.
If you drift into the realm were cost doesn't really matter to your customers, then they'll just buy the best...how will the R44 and R66 stack up against a Guimabl G4, which will doubtless be pretty, crashworthy, 3-bladed and quiet.
Of course Monsieur Guimbal may also choose to exploit the fact that the Lycoming O-540-F1B5 used in the Raven 1 is actually approved for automotive fuel so the fuel cost of your four seat helicopter outside of the USA could be reduced by up to 40%! Why Robinson hasn't sorted this out is also completely beyond me.
Just my 2p worth!