Missing accident report.
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Missing accident report.
"The regulation that covers accident investigation says 'The safety investigation authority shall make public the final report in the shortest possible time and if possible within 12 months of the date of the accident. If the final report cannot be made public within 12 months, the safety investigation authority shall release an interim statement at least at each anniversary of the accident, detailing the progress of the investigation and any safety issues raised'."
What has happened to the Italian/Irish report on the B738 multiple birdstrike accident at Rome Ciampino in 2008?
Last heard the engines were going off to be strip examined in 2009, since then a stunning silence on the topic.
If the quoted regulation applies to the authority responsible for this report, then why are we still awaiting for either the full/final report, or by now reading the annual update(s)?
I do NOT want to initiate another airline/CEO bashing forum due to the affected airline, but as a "NG" driver I wish to learn what I can about the accident should I ever be faced with the same shower of beaks and feathers.
My briefing currently is that if we hit a flock of birds on approach, we will NOT be trying a go-around, but will attempt at all costs to manage energy to arrive on/near the airfield.
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo gets me absolutely nowhere!
What has happened to the Italian/Irish report on the B738 multiple birdstrike accident at Rome Ciampino in 2008?
Last heard the engines were going off to be strip examined in 2009, since then a stunning silence on the topic.
If the quoted regulation applies to the authority responsible for this report, then why are we still awaiting for either the full/final report, or by now reading the annual update(s)?
I do NOT want to initiate another airline/CEO bashing forum due to the affected airline, but as a "NG" driver I wish to learn what I can about the accident should I ever be faced with the same shower of beaks and feathers.
My briefing currently is that if we hit a flock of birds on approach, we will NOT be trying a go-around, but will attempt at all costs to manage energy to arrive on/near the airfield.
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo gets me absolutely nowhere!
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Annexe 13 Accident Investigation Responsibilities
Suggest you contact the Italian UIIA and Irish AAIU asking them when the report will be published, and reasons for the delay. In my experience, the AAIU are diligent and responsive.
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo gets me absolutely nowhere!
This is the one in question:
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo
You are correct, though, in saying that no further information has been released by the ANSV.
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Jet Blast here we come. . .or perhaps "Airlines Airports & Routes" should we have a vote where we would prefer ?
I have mentioned this accident many times (not through malevolance towards Ryanair, as I think their crew did the best in the circumstances - with one small caveat directed at the FO ) & the Question usually "vanishes" in short order. . . hold tight & prepare to be catapulted into the electronic wilderness.
I have mentioned this accident many times (not through malevolance towards Ryanair, as I think their crew did the best in the circumstances - with one small caveat directed at the FO ) & the Question usually "vanishes" in short order. . . hold tight & prepare to be catapulted into the electronic wilderness.
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Wrong Reference.
Apologies for quoting the reference in my OP.
This is the other and most recent I can find.
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo
I trust this question will not be shifted nor vapourised by the mods.
Such action will only confirm our worst suspicions?
Most accident report discussion takes place in R&N, so what motive for moving this genuine query?
How come a total loss accident with injuries is called an "event"?!?!
This is the other and most recent I can find.
ANSV - Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza del Volo
I trust this question will not be shifted nor vapourised by the mods.
Such action will only confirm our worst suspicions?
Most accident report discussion takes place in R&N, so what motive for moving this genuine query?
How come a total loss accident with injuries is called an "event"?!?!
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 25th Sep 2013 at 09:42.
How come a total loss accident with injuries is called an "event"?!?!
Given the damage sustained by both airframe and engines, it clearly satisfies the ICAO "Accident" definition.
I doubt that the delay has anything to do with the operator involved. I suspect that it has more to do with a lack of strategies to deal with their known bird migration problem that happens at the same time every year. We wouldn't want to criticize a "local" problem that could easily have led to a much more catastrophic result.
Last edited by J.O.; 25th Sep 2013 at 10:30.
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Unofficial summary.
1) Plane hits birds on approach, apparently a G/A is attempted (IAW Boeing manual re engine failure on approach option).
2) Both engines quit, having eaten more than their certified allowance of poultry.
3) Plane plonks onto runway, wrecking 'frame and causing injuries either during impact or subsequent evacuation. Good handling avoids disaster!!
4) Wreckage and pilots relatively intact and DFDR and CVR presumably found on the same day.
5) Next year the engines go to Wales for stripdown and examination.
6) 'Frame returned to UK and allegedly used as engineer training rig
7) FIVE YEARS LATER we pilots eagerly await the full report.
Apart from the final report, what am I missing??
2) Both engines quit, having eaten more than their certified allowance of poultry.
3) Plane plonks onto runway, wrecking 'frame and causing injuries either during impact or subsequent evacuation. Good handling avoids disaster!!
4) Wreckage and pilots relatively intact and DFDR and CVR presumably found on the same day.
5) Next year the engines go to Wales for stripdown and examination.
6) 'Frame returned to UK and allegedly used as engineer training rig
7) FIVE YEARS LATER we pilots eagerly await the full report.
Apart from the final report, what am I missing??
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What about R44 Helicopter DQ-IHE?
"The regulation that covers accident investigation says 'The safety investigation authority shall make public the final report in the shortest possible time and if possible within 12 months of the date of the accident. If the final report cannot be made public within 12 months, the safety investigation authority shall release an interim statement at least at each anniversary of the accident, detailing the progress of the investigation and any safety issues raised'."
What is going on? Isn't there some overarching authority who has responsibility for ensuring crash reports are managed in a timely manner?
Isn't there some overarching authority who has responsibility for ensuring crash reports are managed in a timely manner?
It's ICAO that makes the "rules". But, as befits its status as an offshoot of the United Nations, at the end of the day it's similarly toothless in the face of recalcitrant AIBs.
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12 month report
Barking, five years is wholly unreasonable but I suspect the authorities would argue that the European regulation you quoted that requires a response in 12 months was only passed in 2010 and is not retroactive to an incident that occurred in 2008.
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.....apparently a G/A is attempted (IAW Boeing manual re engine failure on approach option).
Boeing gives options and one of them is land ahead. If I understand correctly the decision to abandon the G/A was due to lack of response from the supposed 'live' engine. An excellent and much unheralded piece of aviating by the captain. Consider the result with a much less experienced captain who might have tried to continue the G/A not realising the imminent death of the 'live' engine and thus impacted outside the airport terrain. That would have been a very different type of 'event'.
Did said captain receive the keys to the city? He deserves them and any medals going. We all know of Sully, so why not this hero?
Boeing gives options and one of them is land ahead. If I understand correctly the decision to abandon the G/A was due to lack of response from the supposed 'live' engine. An excellent and much unheralded piece of aviating by the captain. Consider the result with a much less experienced captain who might have tried to continue the G/A not realising the imminent death of the 'live' engine and thus impacted outside the airport terrain. That would have been a very different type of 'event'.
Did said captain receive the keys to the city? He deserves them and any medals going. We all know of Sully, so why not this hero?
The ANSV annual reports have been published in Italian only.
I must admit that the English section of the ANSV website looks abandoned since a few years.
I am speculating, but I suppose that in many cases the delay in publishing the final report has to do with the notorious problem of judicial investigations interfering with the air safety investigations.
I must admit that the English section of the ANSV website looks abandoned since a few years.
I am speculating, but I suppose that in many cases the delay in publishing the final report has to do with the notorious problem of judicial investigations interfering with the air safety investigations.
Last edited by aerolearner; 25th Sep 2013 at 22:26.
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My e-mail to AAIU in Ireland remained unanswered.
A follow-up phone call reveals it was received but mislaid and is being forwarded to the Inspectors for their response.
However, as it is an Italian (ANSV) resposibility, presumably we have to wait to see if they are still in business...................................
Back to the darkened room for me then!
A follow-up phone call reveals it was received but mislaid and is being forwarded to the Inspectors for their response.
However, as it is an Italian (ANSV) resposibility, presumably we have to wait to see if they are still in business...................................
Back to the darkened room for me then!
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There seems to be an assumption that a report is due because an accident report was filed. Was it?
It wouldn't be the first time an accident report "failed" to get written/submitted.
It wouldn't be the first time an accident report "failed" to get written/submitted.
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AAIU, congratulations to you!
Following my phonecall, I soon received an e-mail from the Inspector, confirming they are still awaiting the Italian report.
Maybe global warming will prevent Hell freezing over, therefore we may never see the outcome?
Presumably the airline concerned has some sort of feedback, but it's probably "commercially sensitive" and of little value to those of us whose weather radar has failed to drive our feathered colleagues out of the way?!
Following my phonecall, I soon received an e-mail from the Inspector, confirming they are still awaiting the Italian report.
Maybe global warming will prevent Hell freezing over, therefore we may never see the outcome?
Presumably the airline concerned has some sort of feedback, but it's probably "commercially sensitive" and of little value to those of us whose weather radar has failed to drive our feathered colleagues out of the way?!
From what one hears, the training department of he company concerned are pretty keen to get their hands on the report too. I have done a similar scenario in the dark in the sim and it is no fun whatsoever.
The starlings are still flocking in sunny Ciampino in large numbers too.
The starlings are still flocking in sunny Ciampino in large numbers too.
