Does aviation make you a nasty person?
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Does aviation make you a nasty person?
Well I'm gutted people ... just been dumped by yet another long term girlfriend ... a girl I really loved ... because of my constant putting aviation before the relationship 
All she wanted was an indication of when this constant living apart, financial hardship and uncertainty about the future would end ... a not unreasonable request ... and I couldn't give it to her because (unless I jack this flying business and get a normal career) then I don't know myself!
Since getting my CPL/IR in '96 I've been hammering the CVs and updates, brown nosing industry types left and right, instructing my ass off to get the hours and doing all the right things for over 5 years now and still as poor as a church mouse with no RHS light at the end of the tunnel. And it SUCKS
I have been lying in bed thinking about it this morning and reluctantly come to the conclusion that I am a nasty, selfish and obsessive person compared to what I used to be before I heard of aviation. Back when I had less worries I would never have blown off a girl like that for the sake of any damn fool job or career, but now I don't even care that much, all that my life seems to revolve around is getting that flying job. It has to be a totally unbalanced and unhealthy way to run your life, I'm sure any psychologist could tell me the same.
I wonder if there's a comparison between flying and drug addiction, I don't know if anyone saw that guy in the documentary on Channel 4 a few weeks back who had blown a hole in his nose from repeated cocaine use and his doctor was like "you've got to stop or you'll have no face left" and then he said to the interviewer "well it's not life threatening, I'll stop if it gets serious"!! It was blindingly obvious to most normal people that he was as mad as a sack of rabid dogs for keeping on doing what he was doing, but he was totally oblivious to it himself.
Pretty morbid post from a normally up beat chap like myself I know. All my mates keep saying 'hang in there you'll get the job soon', no doubt they're right but in the bigger scheme of things, I do wonder if we're all just being lemmings together?
All she wanted was an indication of when this constant living apart, financial hardship and uncertainty about the future would end ... a not unreasonable request ... and I couldn't give it to her because (unless I jack this flying business and get a normal career) then I don't know myself!Since getting my CPL/IR in '96 I've been hammering the CVs and updates, brown nosing industry types left and right, instructing my ass off to get the hours and doing all the right things for over 5 years now and still as poor as a church mouse with no RHS light at the end of the tunnel. And it SUCKS
I have been lying in bed thinking about it this morning and reluctantly come to the conclusion that I am a nasty, selfish and obsessive person compared to what I used to be before I heard of aviation. Back when I had less worries I would never have blown off a girl like that for the sake of any damn fool job or career, but now I don't even care that much, all that my life seems to revolve around is getting that flying job. It has to be a totally unbalanced and unhealthy way to run your life, I'm sure any psychologist could tell me the same.
I wonder if there's a comparison between flying and drug addiction, I don't know if anyone saw that guy in the documentary on Channel 4 a few weeks back who had blown a hole in his nose from repeated cocaine use and his doctor was like "you've got to stop or you'll have no face left" and then he said to the interviewer "well it's not life threatening, I'll stop if it gets serious"!! It was blindingly obvious to most normal people that he was as mad as a sack of rabid dogs for keeping on doing what he was doing, but he was totally oblivious to it himself.
Pretty morbid post from a normally up beat chap like myself I know. All my mates keep saying 'hang in there you'll get the job soon', no doubt they're right but in the bigger scheme of things, I do wonder if we're all just being lemmings together?
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Mate - if a women (and this applies to most careers, interests etc) does not want to help and support you as you would do for her then the relationship has no future.
She just wasn't the "one" for you - time will move on, you'll feel better and meet someone new, lifes fookin magic like that
Regards
Tunny
She just wasn't the "one" for you - time will move on, you'll feel better and meet someone new, lifes fookin magic like that
Regards
Tunny
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I don't think aviation is that much differnt from any other major profession. How much sacrifice (of personal life style) do you think doctors had to make to get through all the years of schooling and internship? How about architects? Lawyers? And I can tell you from personal experience --- even the fat cat investment bankers in the city work 80 hour weeks. It takes a "special" partner to hang in there through the long years of little reward. If she left now --- she did you a favour. Now get back to your flight manuals and back to work with 'ya mate.
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Just think back to before you started your flying training. You saw this huge hurdle and went for it. Then after all the blood sweat and tears you finally got your licence. Unless your Mr Prefect, and can breeze throught exams, understand everything first time and manage a good home life you're just Mr Average. You have had to be focused on the task in hand which might have seen to her that your not paying enough attention and that your loosing interest.
Most of the women Ive been involved with dont see all the effort that goes in to flying. They just think that you jump in and go flying every now and then. Then arrive home with a £400 invoice. Trying to get that illusive job is the worse ever (Im still trying) but people do change - thats a fact of life. Why do you think that you're a nasty person? Just because you are trying to fulfill your dream career? I think you should not be taking a look at yourself, it should be at your ex-girlfriend. She has the problem not you.
Cheer up, you'll get that first job soon enough. And when you do please recommend me too!
Women; you cant live with 'em, or kill 'em!
Regards,
Homer
Most of the women Ive been involved with dont see all the effort that goes in to flying. They just think that you jump in and go flying every now and then. Then arrive home with a £400 invoice. Trying to get that illusive job is the worse ever (Im still trying) but people do change - thats a fact of life. Why do you think that you're a nasty person? Just because you are trying to fulfill your dream career? I think you should not be taking a look at yourself, it should be at your ex-girlfriend. She has the problem not you.
Cheer up, you'll get that first job soon enough. And when you do please recommend me too!
Women; you cant live with 'em, or kill 'em!
Regards,
Homer
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Cheer up mate. Although this may appear a pain in the ar~e try not to worry. It is not aviation that makes us a nasty person, it is chasing an ambition that can make you that way. Especially when you put in all the effort you have to keep getting these knocks. But be assured you are not alone, it happens in all lines of work. I used to work in the city in corporate finance, around 75 hours plus a week, it sucked and I lost a long term girlfriend, and had no licence or any chance of a flying job at the end. Hang in there and just become more determined, remember what does'nt kill you, makes you stronger. Or so they say.
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Luke Mate
I sympathise
The problem is effective use of TIME
This whole 0hrs to Airline mallarky
takes a whole load of money and TIME
Its harder to quit than to carry on - you
have invested too much of both
You could be only one call away from that job ..
In theory the girlfriend should support you but flying on the other hand can become obsessive and other things are ignored.
Sometimes its helpful to have a rest .. because it can help one to see things in perspective .. but .. remember
.. winners never quit and quitters never win..
I sympathise
The problem is effective use of TIME
This whole 0hrs to Airline mallarky
takes a whole load of money and TIME
Its harder to quit than to carry on - you
have invested too much of both
You could be only one call away from that job ..
In theory the girlfriend should support you but flying on the other hand can become obsessive and other things are ignored.
Sometimes its helpful to have a rest .. because it can help one to see things in perspective .. but .. remember
.. winners never quit and quitters never win..
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Sounds like you have got AIDS, Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome (not the other).
Would you be happy in a 9->5 in the city with her, kids, car and no flying? It would eat away at you sooner or later or you may just end up resenting her. You need someone who will stand by you !!!
Would you be happy in a 9->5 in the city with her, kids, car and no flying? It would eat away at you sooner or later or you may just end up resenting her. You need someone who will stand by you !!!
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Luke,
I don't think aviation makes us nasty people, but I would say that it does make us selfish. We must be selfish to spend all that amount of time and money on ourselves, but what other way is there of doing it?
Best regards, GT.
I don't think aviation makes us nasty people, but I would say that it does make us selfish. We must be selfish to spend all that amount of time and money on ourselves, but what other way is there of doing it?
Best regards, GT.
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I think a career in aviation makes you extremely focused and yes, selfish. You have to be single minded and if there's someone in your life who doesn't support you 100% then the relationship will suffer.
I've had experience of this firsthand. When I started learning to fly it caused a great deal of tension as my focus turned to aviation and has never left it since! My partner took it all very personally and he couldn't understand why I'd changed overnight.
If I am honest I would have to say that flying has changed me - in some ways for the worse but in other ways for the better. Now I have the attitude that this is who I am and if someone can't deal with it, too bad. But then again, someone could argue that proves that I am a self absorbed and utterly selfish person!
I've had experience of this firsthand. When I started learning to fly it caused a great deal of tension as my focus turned to aviation and has never left it since! My partner took it all very personally and he couldn't understand why I'd changed overnight.
If I am honest I would have to say that flying has changed me - in some ways for the worse but in other ways for the better. Now I have the attitude that this is who I am and if someone can't deal with it, too bad. But then again, someone could argue that proves that I am a self absorbed and utterly selfish person!
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Luke, I'm very sorry to hear it's all gone pear-shaped. Is it because aviation makes us bad people? NO, but we are, as a group, fairly self-centered, goal-oriented and a bit blinkered. We don't see the chaos we cause in the lives of those around us until it's too late, and they'll never appreciate the single-mindedness needed to qualify for, get, and maintain this lifestyle because we can't share it with them, unlike almost any other desirable job.
It's a fact of aviation life, I'm afraid, and it's not often because of straying eyes that relationships fold for aviators - although we're as susceptible to that as any other group in society. It's not right to say that 'if she loved you enough, she'd support you', because this career path is uniquely demanding on partners. Relationships that would survive elsewhere can't take the extreme stresses that this job puts on them.
Believe me, I know. I've lost two wives and my children because of my chosen career.
It's a fact of aviation life, I'm afraid, and it's not often because of straying eyes that relationships fold for aviators - although we're as susceptible to that as any other group in society. It's not right to say that 'if she loved you enough, she'd support you', because this career path is uniquely demanding on partners. Relationships that would survive elsewhere can't take the extreme stresses that this job puts on them.
Believe me, I know. I've lost two wives and my children because of my chosen career.
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A friend of mine quoted the statistic (lies, damned lies and statistics??!) to me that the divorce rate in aviation is somewhere around 60%. So, it obviously takes a huge toll on relationships, as does any job that requires a lot of focus. And then of course, there's the enforced separations due to shift work - the need to live virtually separate lives because your schedules just never coincide. I suspect it's just the nature of the beast, and takes a huge effort and very understanding partners to keep it all on track. Good luck in the future.
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If the above are typical, is the answer Yes Anyone share my impression that pilots tend to be arrogant and intolerant?
P.S. Do you agree that many Wannabes seem to be 'worst of breed' (cocky, gobby, spoilt, young Archers) who will, hopefully, never make it?
P.S. Do you agree that many Wannabes seem to be 'worst of breed' (cocky, gobby, spoilt, young Archers) who will, hopefully, never make it?
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Query,
No not really. Practically all of other Pilots and Wannabees I have met have been really nice down to earth people.
I hope all the other wanabees I have met make it - just as long as I make it first. Damn I knew I was getting Selfish!!
[ 24 July 2001: Message edited by: Capt Wannabee ]
No not really. Practically all of other Pilots and Wannabees I have met have been really nice down to earth people.
I hope all the other wanabees I have met make it - just as long as I make it first. Damn I knew I was getting Selfish!!
[ 24 July 2001: Message edited by: Capt Wannabee ]
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Its not just men that find this problem with relationships and aviation. I had the long term boyfriend and set off to do my CPL and IR thinking that it would be ok. One year later and visits home every weekend to see him it wasn't working, i dumped him only to have him say that i didn't see him enough and i should be home all the time. You see its a dream to fly and to some people its a very long time to fullfill that dream, you deserve to be selfish sometimes. Not all the time but sometimes. Don't worry about the girlfriends, i find the more you keep them informed, eg. explaining what an ILS is and why its not "just like riding a bike" the more support and understanding you get.
oh yeh query, really inspiring you were a wannabe once and people need support not insults.
oh yeh query, really inspiring you were a wannabe once and people need support not insults.
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Just been reading of Lukes troubles. Conclusion I've reached is that you're no nastier than the average bloke, but you're greedier. You don't only want the thrill of flying but you want a high salary for doing it - which is understandable. However, on top of all this, you want a woman, and no ordinary woman at that, she's got to be a raver whose daddy has oodles of dosh. For her part, she'll quickly learn that she's left the families executive pad for a couple of rooms on a council estate, full of Oxfam furniture and a fella who - in moments of passion is liable to say "God, I made a hard landing today".
Luke, there's only one solution. Shack up with some old biddie who looks like Whistlers mother and who is looking for a soft niche and will spend her time while you're up in the clouds - knocking back Guiness in the Dog & Duck. Be assured, your slippers will be warming by the fire, you'll have bangers and mash as nauseum and if you - as a non-smoker - don't mind finding strange packets of fags on your dressing table, you'll have a life long chum whose demands on your Perf 'A' in the bedroom could well lead to an early exit from aviation!
Luke, there's only one solution. Shack up with some old biddie who looks like Whistlers mother and who is looking for a soft niche and will spend her time while you're up in the clouds - knocking back Guiness in the Dog & Duck. Be assured, your slippers will be warming by the fire, you'll have bangers and mash as nauseum and if you - as a non-smoker - don't mind finding strange packets of fags on your dressing table, you'll have a life long chum whose demands on your Perf 'A' in the bedroom could well lead to an early exit from aviation!
Aviation certainly has its costs and rewards. Its much like profit/loss account.
On the one hand I have missed hundreds of good nights out, holidays and fine times with my school year chums because of weekend volunteer flying and being away on courses or not having money due to training. On the other hand I have met hundreds of great people through flying and made a wide circle of good friends from a diverse geographical, social and personality backgrounds.
I've lost at least two girlfriends through aviation but then I've made at least one and gained plenty of 'good times' from others. You'll find the airlines a particularly target rich environment when you get there Luke...
Aviation has cost me a small fortune but then my wage slip now is pretty good and in the next five years will probably suppase my best expectations.
I've suffered rows worry and confrontation at home in the family because of the time, setbacks and money aviation was costing. But know it gives me a great buzz to watch how proud my family are explaining that I'm an airline pilot...
As I said - profit and loss.
In the end it has balanced very nicely in favour of aviation for me at this point. I am sure Luke that it will do the same for you in the near future.
Good luck,
WWW
On the one hand I have missed hundreds of good nights out, holidays and fine times with my school year chums because of weekend volunteer flying and being away on courses or not having money due to training. On the other hand I have met hundreds of great people through flying and made a wide circle of good friends from a diverse geographical, social and personality backgrounds.
I've lost at least two girlfriends through aviation but then I've made at least one and gained plenty of 'good times' from others. You'll find the airlines a particularly target rich environment when you get there Luke...
Aviation has cost me a small fortune but then my wage slip now is pretty good and in the next five years will probably suppase my best expectations.
I've suffered rows worry and confrontation at home in the family because of the time, setbacks and money aviation was costing. But know it gives me a great buzz to watch how proud my family are explaining that I'm an airline pilot...
As I said - profit and loss.
In the end it has balanced very nicely in favour of aviation for me at this point. I am sure Luke that it will do the same for you in the near future.
Good luck,
WWW
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Luke,
After careful reading of your post, it seems to me that you suffer from a typical pilot's personality. Pilots tend to be goal oriented, concrete thinking, highly focused individuals. We tend to like technical issues and dislike emotional "fuzzy" issues. It takes a particular type of mate to be able to live with that. This last lady does not seem to be that type. Right now you are focused on getting that magic first job. Like many of us, you are focused on it to the exclusion of almost everything else. There is nothing wrong with you, that is just the way you are. I hope you do find what you are looking for. Good luck.
After careful reading of your post, it seems to me that you suffer from a typical pilot's personality. Pilots tend to be goal oriented, concrete thinking, highly focused individuals. We tend to like technical issues and dislike emotional "fuzzy" issues. It takes a particular type of mate to be able to live with that. This last lady does not seem to be that type. Right now you are focused on getting that magic first job. Like many of us, you are focused on it to the exclusion of almost everything else. There is nothing wrong with you, that is just the way you are. I hope you do find what you are looking for. Good luck.
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Bummer, Luke Old Bean. Come and get pissed on Sunday....it could be worse, you could be in my shoes.
(As most people won't know but Luke does, I'm getting married on Sunday - so you see it really could be worse).
(As most people won't know but Luke does, I'm getting married on Sunday - so you see it really could be worse).