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Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.


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Old 29th Dec 2012, 10:54   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: I'm a nomad
Posts: 820
I'm just wondering why negative posts about Ventum Air are written by users with just less than 15-20 messages... In this case we have an user with just 2 posts
I have sympathy for Ventum Air if all those negative posts on PPRuNe so far have been posted by the same individual person.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 18:36   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Poland
Age: 39
Posts: 8
RedBullGaveMeWings - It's curious that you try to question my credibility only on the basis of the amount of posts I have written. If you don't agree with me (or state that what I wrote is not true), please try to objectively undermine any of the facts I have included in my posts. I'll be glad to provide as much information as I can. I just want to be helpful to those who consider training in Poland.

I'm also sure that some of those that do have negative opinion about that FTO do not post their opinions here because they are threatened by the CEO of that company. Yes, if you visit and translate some of those web pages I list in my post, you will see what I mean. F.i. - a Norwegian guy who was promised by a Ventum Air CEO a refund for his plane tickets to come and visit FTO Ventum Air (and did not get the money for couple of weeks, despite few e-mail reminders) wrote his story at PPRuNe and was threatened by the CEO to be sued for what he wrote. He finally got his money right after he wrote few posts at PPRuNe. Visit Ventum Air : Trafikkflyger - Side 3 and find out for yourself.

Moreover, when Loff (from the thread above) was offered a training contract at Ventum Air, this FTO did not even have an FTO certificate of the polish CAA to provide any other than theory trainings. At that time they did not own a single plane.

Furthermore, there is an interesting thread about Ventum Air at PPRuNe - Ventum Air (Merged)

There is much more negative information about this school at polish web pages. If you can read Polish (or have somebody that can translate it for you) please visit the following few:

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Teoria do ATPL w Ventum Air - pro¶ba o opinie

Gdzie najlepszy distance learning??

Szybowce.Com - Grupy dyskusyjne - Re: ATPL(A) teoria - gdzie ?

[CPL(A)] Szkolenie CPL w Warszawie

As far as Metlik's question is concerned - they do fly at EPLL mostly. There is quite a few airports with ILS capabilities within 1h flight from EPLL (by P2006T): EPBY, EPPO, EPKT, EPWR, little further EPKK (1h15min), EPZG (30min from EPPO) and EPGD (1h from EPBY). EPWA - they don't like training flights at all. If you fly VMC (and file a flight plan), they will let you in without any problems. The only problem is that (sometimes) they make you wait 20minutes before you can perform a low-pass ar a full landing if you wish. With IMC flights you fly the same path as those big planes fly. With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights. At other polish airports which are not that busy, you can always find a time-frame when there is no arrivals/departures. Also, I noticed that at other airports controllers are more helpful.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 20:11   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: LVA
Age: 35
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>>With P2006T you can fly about 120-130knots which is pretty slow for an >>approaching A320 or B737. Therefore they don't like IMC training flights.

The same situation in Riga (EVRA): you should book the time slot for the IFR training flight one day before and nobody promises you, that you will get a exact time you want.

In Poland ME-IR/CPL skill test usually is ~2h long, as I know. Seems that time will be enough to make a minimum program: 1xVOR approach and 2xILS at EPLL. Maybe SID, STAR, some holdings, steep turns etc. I'm right?

Thank you for information!
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 22:03   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Poland
Age: 39
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Yes, 2h should be enough if your examiner lets you stay at EPLL. I heard that some of them like to take students for an exam approaches to an unknown airport (well.. at least not the one you performed most of your IR training approaches). Be prepared to fly to EPPO or EPBY. Moreover, I think that if you take both exams at the same time (CPL(A) and IR/ME), you will have to have a 30min break between both exams. CPL also has to be evaluated somehow - most likely, if you don't stay at EPLL, the flight to f.i. EPPO will be treated as the CPL exam. Best way is to ask your instructor at the beginning of your training - he will be able to provide you with the most up-to-date information.
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 11:13   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: LVA
Age: 35
Posts: 31
Seems, that even NDB approach has a possibility to happen. I never flown NDB approaches because in Latvia we doesn't have the NDB's. Will need to train it.

Thank you for information and Happy New Year!
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 14:00   #26 (permalink)
 
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I heard that even Americans don't train student pilots to fly NDB approach as they are non-existent there. Is that true?
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 08:27   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Americans stopped using NDB approach plates in 2005 (AOPA Online: So long to 216 NDB approach procedures). As far as I know, GA still uses them but unofficially - although no valid approach plates exit, some of those NDBs are still up and running.

For exam, if your examiner decides to test you on that (although I doubt it) he will most like take you to EPBY - closest airport with valid NDB procedures.

Anyway, I've been told that (in Poland) all NDB procedures are going to be decommissioned sometime late 2013 or 2014.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 01:57   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Standby...
Age: 34
Posts: 10
Thought I'd give my experience of Bartolini as a few people have sent me a PM asking about them.

I live in the UK and did my PPL and most of my hour building here. I came across Bartolini through a friend and was drawn to them by the low cost in comparison to UK schools.
After visiting them in January last year for a day, I immediately got a good impression of them and decided to do my ME/IR/CPL training here.
Turned out to be a great decision, I highly recommend Bartolini - instructors are very experienced and friendly guys, the training was well structured and although given support throughout, you are taught how to find things out for yourself rather than being spoon-fed the whole way....makes for a better pilot in my opinion.
I passed all skills tests first time, in minimum hours and although there were times where Bartolini could have gotten extra hours out of me, they did not. I spent exactly what I was quoted in the contract, no hidden charges.
Part of my training was flying to Latvia and back which is by far the best flying experience I have had to date.

Just to note, all my ratings & license have been added/issued by UK CAA.

The people at Bartolini cannot do enough for you, and they've have helped me out many times since with getting my license and ratings issued, including them making trips to Polish CAA in Warsaw on my behalf.
I made some good friends and am still in touch with the school. I hope to go back this summer for some flying trips.

If anyone is considering their training at Bartolini, I recommend a trip out there for a day or two, even do some hour building there and you'll see they are a great school. Ryanair & Wizz fly to Lodz from Stansted & Luton.
At the end of it all, I spent half the amount of money for my training at Bartolini as I would have in UK, even accounting for accomodation, flights etc.
Lodz is a great city and very cheap to live!
Whitti is offline   Reply
Old 16th Jan 2013, 11:18   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: LVA
Age: 35
Posts: 31
So, I'm back home and I can share my experience with Bartolini Air (sorry for my not excellent English in front of all):

In simple words speaking - I'm more than satisfied with Bartolini Air!

I've got ME-IR training and CPL skill-test in Lodz and it taken from me just a 4 days! Can you imagine so short period of time for training during the winter time? Me not. But it was done and I would like to tell to Bartolini crew many thanks for that! There is a great, experienced, highly motivated and really friendly instructors. No any hidden fees - everything was as they promise before.

For newcomers I suggest to be prepared for training in advance (if you want to get just separated ME, ME-IR, CPL, etc. training instead of full course): before you come you can get all the documents you will need for training - checklists, SOP, documentation etc. If you plan to fly with P2006T be prepared for glass cockpit - it really good one! You can use the G1000 emulator for PC and become familiar with all the things you need. It will helps you during the training and saves your time and money for sure.

If you will go to Bartolini I suggest you to stay in Basniowa hotel - it is just 10 min walk to the airfield, there is a nice rooms and big dinning room with the fireplace (trust me, there is nothing better to sit close to it after several hours of flying in winter ). There is possible to meet other students and discuss all the things about aviation and womans. And BTW it's almost for free

Just PM me if you need additional info.
Cheers!
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 18:03   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: I'm a nomad
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So do Bartolini Air offer block hours for hour building?
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Old 2nd Feb 2013, 19:35   #31 (permalink)
 
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Red bull, yes they do, from 10hrs and up. Get in touch with them and they'll help you out.
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Old 6th Feb 2013, 11:13   #32 (permalink)
 
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ATPL theory at Bartolini Air

I've just had a nice chat with the head of Bartolini Air who seems to be extremely helpful and kind.

There is only one thing I am aware of: they claim on their website that ATPL theory in DL can be done in as little as 3 months!!! It's not my deadline and I am thinking of dividing the subjects in 2 sets and I don't have to follow Bristol GS's schedule even though Bartolini Air is a partner of Bristol GS.
The brush up is only 10 days but I am free to manage my exam scheduling but I can't take exams and attend the brush up unless I don't complete the whole course in distance leaning.

Has anybody ever gone through something like this?

The school still looks awesome and I think I will do everything there.
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 13:51   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: I'm a nomad
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I'm sorry to bring this thread up again. While I finally had an answer to my previous question, I have another one.

Does anybody know what books are used for PPL at Bartolini Air? Obviously the one in English.
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 22:20   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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If I remember it right, they use books from Oxford..
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Old 15th Feb 2013, 10:30   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 29
Exclamation Ventum Air vs. Bartolini Air

About theory trainings - Polish CAO (called ULC) published recently interesting documents at their web page - Urz?d Lotnictwa Cywilnego - Statystyki Komisji Egzaminacyjnej - you can check how students of all schools passed their exams (in 2012).

Just to sum up for those that don't have too much time - a comparison of Bartolini Air (the only other FTO in Poland that flies TECNAM P2006T) and Ventum Air based on the ATPL theory results:

Bartolini Air - ATPL average score: 85,29%, successful attempts 55/61 = 90,16% (meaning 9 out of 10 attempts are successful)
Ventum Air - ATPL average score: 81,81%, successful attempts 216/286 = 75,52% (meaning 7.5 out of 10 attempts are successful)

You can easily see who goes for quality and who goes for quantity.
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Old 17th Feb 2013, 17:21   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Singapore / Rotterdam
Age: 23
Posts: 4
fees

so it bartolini air the kind of school that you 'pay as you go' or by installments?

im looking to do integrated ATPL that allows me to pay as i go.

looks like bartolini air is a great sch!
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Old 17th Feb 2013, 20:11   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: "Dark side of the moon"
Posts: 80
When I was there i only paid the module I took up front so "pay as you go" but check with them if it is still like that.
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Old 19th Jun 2013, 19:49   #38 (permalink)
 
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Bartolini Air - Poland. Experience of existing students?

Hi everyone,

Has anyone got any experience with Bartolini Air in Poland? It was suggested to me by someone but I would like to see if any others have experience with this school.

Also, has anyone done the ATPLs in Warsaw? Just wondering if the location/ lack of Polish created any excessive hassle?
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Old 19th Jun 2013, 20:18   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Almosf there
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Bartolini Air - Poland. Experience of existing students?

There are also some others threads about Bartolini. Maybe you can find some useful information there as well. I'm also thinking of going there, to get my ppl but first I have got to sort out some financial problems.
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Old 20th Jun 2013, 06:56   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Age: 50
Posts: 199
try a search. Plenty about bartolini, some of it recent, and some comments also about polish exam costs
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