Gold Bars and Flying Suits
GBS, I have friends with major airlines that took 20 years to get a command - and even then they tend not to refer to themselves as captain.
Their employers do refer to them as 'captain' however, having promoted them from First Officer.
All these things are subjective, but IMHO the type of person who thinks they're the 'captain' of a little boat or little plane, and feels the need to buy regalia that indicates they are a captain, almost certainly wouldn't pass a command course.
Too insecure.
Their employers do refer to them as 'captain' however, having promoted them from First Officer.
All these things are subjective, but IMHO the type of person who thinks they're the 'captain' of a little boat or little plane, and feels the need to buy regalia that indicates they are a captain, almost certainly wouldn't pass a command course.
Too insecure.
If you honestly believe that the pilot of a Cessna 150 is a captain then .............
Last edited by Good Business Sense; 28th Aug 2017 at 13:51.
But this thread was never about the terminology, it is about the outward signs. Whether one calls the PIC the captain is little relevant to me, I think the words are close to synonym.
Technically speaking, the PIC of a C152 (or even more modest craft like mine) IS the captain. But using that term adds little information, only hubris.
The annoyance is about people showing off. For me at least, and I think I'm not alone.
For illustration: I once met a private pilot who at the time flew his own SET, since replaced with a twin bizjet. Did he need to show off? It was obvious he was well above me, both pilotwise and budgetwise. His clothing was as casual as could be and so were his manners. It only adds to my respect for the chap. Yes, he was the captain - but did not need epaulettes to show so.
Technically speaking, the PIC of a C152 (or even more modest craft like mine) IS the captain. But using that term adds little information, only hubris.
The annoyance is about people showing off. For me at least, and I think I'm not alone.
For illustration: I once met a private pilot who at the time flew his own SET, since replaced with a twin bizjet. Did he need to show off? It was obvious he was well above me, both pilotwise and budgetwise. His clothing was as casual as could be and so were his manners. It only adds to my respect for the chap. Yes, he was the captain - but did not need epaulettes to show so.
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 28th Aug 2017 at 18:56.
I have friends with major airlines that took 20 years to get a command - and even then they tend not to refer to themselves as captain.
Their employers do refer to them as 'captain' however, having promoted them from First Officer.
All these things are subjective, but IMHO the type of person who thinks they're the 'captain' of a little boat or little plane, and feels the need to buy regalia that indicates they are a captain, almost certainly wouldn't pass a command course.
Their employers do refer to them as 'captain' however, having promoted them from First Officer.
All these things are subjective, but IMHO the type of person who thinks they're the 'captain' of a little boat or little plane, and feels the need to buy regalia that indicates they are a captain, almost certainly wouldn't pass a command course.
What some people with a PPL who adorn themselves with gold bars don't seem to realise is what it takes to earn those. After gaining a CPL/IR and MCC, those few who manage to pass the stiff psychometric assessments, CRM and aptitude tests, simulator rides and job interview, then typically spend some years gaining experience for an ATP licence. During that time many further ground school courses are attended, scores of hours are spent in simulators and the command hopeful is closely evaluated by trainers and line trainers.
For a medium-sized employer like mine, command might be reached after about 5 years. For the largest companies, it could be a 10 to 20 year wait. Even the promotion from First Officer with 2 gold bars to Senior First Officer with 3 is no mean achievement, but there will still be a long period of line training on the company routes repeatedly until the title of Captain is rightfully earned.
Last edited by Colibri49; 28th Aug 2017 at 22:40.
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For illustration: I once met a private pilot who at the time flew his own SET, since replaced with a twin bizjet. Did he need to show off? It was obvious he was well above me, both pilotwise and budgetwise. His clothing was as casual as could be and so were his manners. It only adds to my respect for the chap. Yes, he was the captain - but did not need epaulettes to show so.
In the OPs matter there is no black and white, it all depends on the situation. Flying a 10 mile long distance UK hop for a coffee wearing bars and shirt may be good for a Monty Python smile, but even in a C150 the 4 bars can save you hours and arrest in remote places.
I really don't know why so many people get their knickers in a knot over this - IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER!
Some years ago I asked a CAA chap at Kidlington to come over to Brize to do my FI revalidation flight. He turned up in the uniform he wore at Kidlington and was on the point of removing his 4-ring tabs when I asked him not to.
This was because the Flying Club at Brize was, at the time, right next to the Air Cargo hangar and my CAA chum's uniform looked identical to a very senior officer from HM Revenue and Customs - and had the movers panicking that a rummage squad was on the way! Lots of scurrying about moving various boxes ensued; eventually after we'd done my check ride we had a good chuckle at the chaos his presence had caused.
Some years ago I asked a CAA chap at Kidlington to come over to Brize to do my FI revalidation flight. He turned up in the uniform he wore at Kidlington and was on the point of removing his 4-ring tabs when I asked him not to.
This was because the Flying Club at Brize was, at the time, right next to the Air Cargo hangar and my CAA chum's uniform looked identical to a very senior officer from HM Revenue and Customs - and had the movers panicking that a rummage squad was on the way! Lots of scurrying about moving various boxes ensued; eventually after we'd done my check ride we had a good chuckle at the chaos his presence had caused.
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I don't think anyone is saying it matters. Crikey, I talk about all sorts of stuff to all sorts of people, face-to-face and on line, and very little of it matters.
Wouldn't life be boring if the only thinks we discussed were the serious important stuff?
This thread is about pretentious dorks in inappropriate flight gear. It doesn't matter that they do that, but neither does it stop the rest of us pointing at them in mirth.
Wouldn't life be boring if the only thinks we discussed were the serious important stuff?
This thread is about pretentious dorks in inappropriate flight gear. It doesn't matter that they do that, but neither does it stop the rest of us pointing at them in mirth.
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Of course it doesn't matter, more to the point who actually cares?
So some bloke turns up wearing a full Captain's uniform at his local flying club to burn in some circuits in the 172. Big deal? Or someone else turns up at a fly-in in a Warrior dressed in full flying suit, millions of squadron badges, flying boots, helmet, Mae West etc. I remain completely unshocked and uninterested.
I can think of many more interesting, amusing and important things to discuss rather than a Trinny & Suzannah-esque critique into others' flight clothing. Too many folk with too much time on their hands. Been lurking here for 11 years and this topic seems to come up once every year or two with the same replies. Zzzzzzz...
So some bloke turns up wearing a full Captain's uniform at his local flying club to burn in some circuits in the 172. Big deal? Or someone else turns up at a fly-in in a Warrior dressed in full flying suit, millions of squadron badges, flying boots, helmet, Mae West etc. I remain completely unshocked and uninterested.
I can think of many more interesting, amusing and important things to discuss rather than a Trinny & Suzannah-esque critique into others' flight clothing. Too many folk with too much time on their hands. Been lurking here for 11 years and this topic seems to come up once every year or two with the same replies. Zzzzzzz...
Thread Starter
Basically, what SSD said. In my original post I said
"Just seen a photo in the UK Pilot magazine of someone wearing 4 gold bars with a mil-spec flying suit. A little OTT?
It was a question - and some of the answers have been illuminating! My opinion (and it is only mine) - if you call yourself Captain of a rented C-150, and turn up to fly it dressed like a North Korean General or a cast member from HMS Pinafore that's up to you, but a bit OTT for me. I'm sure you don't even notice the sniggering, so if it makes you happy - why not? As the great pop philosopher Adam Ant once wrote "ridicule is nothing to be scared of'.
"Just seen a photo in the UK Pilot magazine of someone wearing 4 gold bars with a mil-spec flying suit. A little OTT?
It was a question - and some of the answers have been illuminating! My opinion (and it is only mine) - if you call yourself Captain of a rented C-150, and turn up to fly it dressed like a North Korean General or a cast member from HMS Pinafore that's up to you, but a bit OTT for me. I'm sure you don't even notice the sniggering, so if it makes you happy - why not? As the great pop philosopher Adam Ant once wrote "ridicule is nothing to be scared of'.
I regularly take people on pleasure flights in a FFS 747-4 sim. I wear the stuff (without epps) when they arrive and then ditch the jacket and tie or hand it over to one of the children to wear. They like dressing up in all the gold braid for the photoshoot at the end of the session.
When they're paying £300 per hour they should expect their driver to be wearing a crisply starched brilliant-white shirt and polished boots, at the very least. In a 747 it looks appropriate and hopefully gives the impression that I'm competent and capable. Not so sure it looks the same in a C150.
PS 10,000 hours on jets
When they're paying £300 per hour they should expect their driver to be wearing a crisply starched brilliant-white shirt and polished boots, at the very least. In a 747 it looks appropriate and hopefully gives the impression that I'm competent and capable. Not so sure it looks the same in a C150.
PS 10,000 hours on jets
Last edited by blue up; 30th Aug 2017 at 08:31.
It actually does matter as you are impersonating a profession and pretending a title that you do not hold.
Also to the untrained eye you're apparently of a much higher skill level than you probably are.
You're conning the general public.
That's why it matters.
Also to the untrained eye you're apparently of a much higher skill level than you probably are.
You're conning the general public.
That's why it matters.
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This thread has inspired me to make myself some 6 gold bar shoulder tabs - if I can find a Dutch Navy Admiral's uniform I will affix them to adequately demonstrate to humbled observers what a true Sky God I am as I leave my PA28 having completed another landing on our tricky 10,000ft plus runway
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Never wore bars or bag when I was flying privately (except when instructing in the days when you could on a ppl). Wear an orange bag at work now so look like an escapee from Guantanamo bay. But no bars. Still look a dork, but then again I wouldn't been seen dead in a Porsche. I suppose we all provide entertainment for those with different perspectives who think we dress or drive something dorkish
I regularly take people on pleasure flights in a FFS 747-4 sim. I wear the stuff (without epps) when they arrive and then ditch the jacket and tie or hand it over to one of the children to wear. They like dressing up in all the gold braid for the photoshoot at the end of the session.
When they're paying £300 per hour they should expect their driver to be wearing a crisply starched brilliant-white shirt and polished boots, at the very least. In a 747 it looks appropriate and hopefully gives the impression that I'm competent and capable. Not so sure it looks the same in a C150.
PS 10,000 hours on jets
When they're paying £300 per hour they should expect their driver to be wearing a crisply starched brilliant-white shirt and polished boots, at the very least. In a 747 it looks appropriate and hopefully gives the impression that I'm competent and capable. Not so sure it looks the same in a C150.
PS 10,000 hours on jets
No issues.
As a paying customer I'd expect you to dress the part.
Little Hollywood action.
If I'd get offered a ride in a small airplane and the pilot shows up dressed like an airline captain I'd seriously doubt their sanity.
And decline...