Glider Pilots of PPRuNe
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hove
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The BGA ensure you can't do this, you have to have a CFI. The whole setup is all about teaching ab-initios not about enjoying flying.
The newest BGA club doesn't have any ab initios, they are set up purely to enjoy solo soaring in the Peak District.
They may get round to instructing beginners one day, but only because they want to, not because they have to.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Former Home of the Hercules, Wilts
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I went solo in 1978 and have just short of 3000 hours. I am am a BGA full rated instructor and ex CFI of 2 clubs. I currently own 11 types of Slingsby gliders.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suffolk
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Thoughtful_Flyer: I dream of finding a farm strip with a handful of friends.
If anyone here is local and wants to get back into gliding without the standard club experience, they could re-solo and gain their XC qualification at ChrisN's club (I've flown there, all very friendly and relaxed and no obvious agony meetings over club issues), buy a sub-£10k glider (lots of decent XC machines at that price) and do the "group of mates at a farm strip" kind of thing with us. PM me if you want more details - website is at http://www.suffolksoaring.co.uk.
I guess I should introduce myself - 12 years in gliding, Sliver + Gold distance, former Basic Instructor, flying an Open Cirrus (the gentleman's conveyance - everywhere at 50kt, none of this unseemly rushing around the sky). My planned 500k is the Welsh borders O/R.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampshire
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Born again glider pilot
Started in 1978 when my driver(I was a rally navigator) gave up to go gliding. Went solo in 1979. PPL in 1982 Gave up in 1984 as I was fed up flying a Cessna 150 for 40 minutes to land have a cop of tea and fly back to stay current.
Rejoined gliding in 1996 after being made redundant and the wife was fed up with me around the house. Now 300+ hrs gold and a diamond and have the use of a Mosquito (thanks Rob) A winch launch for £8 can set me off on a cross country flight of 4-5 hrs during the summer. Even club aircraft are only £33/hr for a Discus. Still love it but have been forced to only join as a social member this year for financial reasons. Any one got a spare seat in a cross country 2 seater this year?
NP
Rejoined gliding in 1996 after being made redundant and the wife was fed up with me around the house. Now 300+ hrs gold and a diamond and have the use of a Mosquito (thanks Rob) A winch launch for £8 can set me off on a cross country flight of 4-5 hrs during the summer. Even club aircraft are only £33/hr for a Discus. Still love it but have been forced to only join as a social member this year for financial reasons. Any one got a spare seat in a cross country 2 seater this year?
NP
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hellfire Corner
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crashone (and others) No you are not alone.
5000 ish flights in gliders (Bronze, silver height, never much motivated to do the rest) with an AEI rating. Loved the AEI flying.
PPL SLMG followed, followed by Group A. Bought a motor glider, spent 7 happy years pottering, but the gliding club commitments meant that my PPL had nothing much in the way flights going anywhere.
New partner, new motivations. Political changes at gliding club. More PPL flying, purchase of Aeronca, new love.
Gliding abandoned, as per last two sentences.
Miss it? Yes, but the Aeronca life wins.
5000 ish flights in gliders (Bronze, silver height, never much motivated to do the rest) with an AEI rating. Loved the AEI flying.
PPL SLMG followed, followed by Group A. Bought a motor glider, spent 7 happy years pottering, but the gliding club commitments meant that my PPL had nothing much in the way flights going anywhere.
New partner, new motivations. Political changes at gliding club. More PPL flying, purchase of Aeronca, new love.
Gliding abandoned, as per last two sentences.
Miss it? Yes, but the Aeronca life wins.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40
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Thanks everyone for coming forward and introducing yourselves on this thread. Great too see so many other glider pilots. Hopefully from this thread we can go forward and stimulate some great debates about the gliding world and just share some stories, anecdotes and general pieces of information for those of us, that are early in our soaring careers can use for the future.
Once again thanks!
Once again thanks!
THE CFI ENDORSEMENT
This is a mandatory endorsement for the Instructor at a club who is responsible for flying standards where any flight training takes place.
At clubs where the club has formally notified the BGA that no flight training takes
place and where no flying takes place by pilots with a lower qualification than a
bronze badge with cross country endorsement, a non-instructor BGA endorsed senior
pilot may be appointed to be responsible for flying standards.
If the Club does not give pre-solo (ab-initio) instruction then there is provision for a Restricted CFI Endorsement. Restricted CFI Endorsement Requirements:
This is a mandatory endorsement for the Instructor at a club who is responsible for flying standards where any flight training takes place.
At clubs where the club has formally notified the BGA that no flight training takes
place and where no flying takes place by pilots with a lower qualification than a
bronze badge with cross country endorsement, a non-instructor BGA endorsed senior
pilot may be appointed to be responsible for flying standards.
If the Club does not give pre-solo (ab-initio) instruction then there is provision for a Restricted CFI Endorsement. Restricted CFI Endorsement Requirements:
- Previously have held a BGA Instructor Rating
- Have 20 hours flying in gliders in the preceding 12 months
- Be in current cross-country practice.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Most of you seem to be UK based, I was South Africa based when I flew gliders.
Gold badge with about 220 hours, my 500km was dual in the Nationals in a ASW 21 so did not count towards Diamond. Did ridge soaring, mountain flying and wide open plains as well.
Flew out of Goldfields Gliding for 6 years in the 90's , held an instructors brevet and passenger approval. We were mostly a winch club but I had aerotow rating as well and we did practice LOW TOW.
Flew twice in UK in about 98 at Lasham. Flew once in the States in 92 while a crew member for SA world champs team in Uvalde.
Have at least 8 types in my logbook , cant remember where it is to check, as family commitments stopped both my gliding and flying in 99.
I admire the UK pilots who fly in difficult conditions, as in South Africa we regularly get lift off the winch and have a soaring day, so much so that club gliders had to be booked and you had a max time aloft on good days. Even winter days 1200ft off the winch was normal in a single seater.
Started to do some aerobatics with our CFI too , which was awesome, and did some formation flying which was much more difficult than I thought it would be. LS1 and ASW19 so similar flying characteristics.
Glad there are plenty of other glider pilots out there on PPRUNE
Gold badge with about 220 hours, my 500km was dual in the Nationals in a ASW 21 so did not count towards Diamond. Did ridge soaring, mountain flying and wide open plains as well.
Flew out of Goldfields Gliding for 6 years in the 90's , held an instructors brevet and passenger approval. We were mostly a winch club but I had aerotow rating as well and we did practice LOW TOW.
Flew twice in UK in about 98 at Lasham. Flew once in the States in 92 while a crew member for SA world champs team in Uvalde.
Have at least 8 types in my logbook , cant remember where it is to check, as family commitments stopped both my gliding and flying in 99.
I admire the UK pilots who fly in difficult conditions, as in South Africa we regularly get lift off the winch and have a soaring day, so much so that club gliders had to be booked and you had a max time aloft on good days. Even winter days 1200ft off the winch was normal in a single seater.
Started to do some aerobatics with our CFI too , which was awesome, and did some formation flying which was much more difficult than I thought it would be. LS1 and ASW19 so similar flying characteristics.
Glad there are plenty of other glider pilots out there on PPRUNE
Do they have to have a CFI who is a full cat instructor?
If he's a full cat instructor and there's no instruction done at this new club he must be instructing elsewhere to maintain the rating!
If he's a full cat instructor and there's no instruction done at this new club he must be instructing elsewhere to maintain the rating!
b b
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I may be wrong but one of the reasons I haven't kept up gliding is not being allowed to take a passenger, even in a privately owned a/c.
Is this a BGA rule or just a club thing?
I can do it with an engine up front.
Is this a BGA rule or just a club thing?
I can do it with an engine up front.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
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carrying passengers
That's one of the reasons why I dropped out - I can take anyone up as a passenger in a light aircraft without asking permission but not in a glider despite having a Bronze C and several hundred glider flilghts.
That and the politics and the 'Dad's Army, Captain Mannering, attitude of so many of the officials who saw gliding more as an arena for egos rather than a way to enjoy one of the purest forms of flying. I also feel that some of the petty restrictions do not make for safer flying - the AAIB investigate GA incidents and publish them for others to learn from. The BGA do not.
If I could find a simple, reasonably basic gliding club flying K13s or other tube and fabric glliders, that was for enthusiasts and didn't cost too much then I'd join!
That and the politics and the 'Dad's Army, Captain Mannering, attitude of so many of the officials who saw gliding more as an arena for egos rather than a way to enjoy one of the purest forms of flying. I also feel that some of the petty restrictions do not make for safer flying - the AAIB investigate GA incidents and publish them for others to learn from. The BGA do not.
If I could find a simple, reasonably basic gliding club flying K13s or other tube and fabric glliders, that was for enthusiasts and didn't cost too much then I'd join!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Devon, UK
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Gliding Reminiscence
On returning from WW2 flying, I joined Cambridge University Gliding Club and did some gliding, and towing with the CU Flying Club's Tiger Moth (gaining height with the T31 on tow was a a long, slow business). Then Lands End Gliding Club, cliff-soaring in their Blanik, and towing with their Auster, with occasional wave-soaring when the wind direction and strength formed wave over the airfield from the Irish mountains. Later, when there was no easily accessible gliding club where I lived, I changed to SLMGs - Fourniers. At Yeovilton the RN gliding club had the use of a lovely, privately-owned SFS31 Milan, which we could fly when the Navy aircraft weren't training on the field. Then at Exeter I flew my own RF4D, and a sydicate RF6B. I took them all over the UK. Not nearly the performance of a modern sailplane, but enough to soar the sea-breeze front along the S Devon coat East of Exeter, and I appreciated the ability to turn on the engine when there was no lift about (or I couldn't find it or stay in it). A lovely flight one beautiful late-summer day was Exeter - Severn-Bridges - Shobdon - Hawarden - LLandudno and around Snowdon to Caernarfon - Borth - Swansea, and across Exmoor back to Exeter. A mixture of soaring, and engine-on through the rotors and down-draughts downwind of Snowdon. The best of both worlds.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Gliding for 25 years, mainly in Oxfordshire but with spells in Bavaria and northern Italy. Haven't always been able to follow the pastime as intensively as I'd have liked, but would never give it up. Acquired NPPL (SSEA and SLMG) a few years ago - partly for the complementary disciplines of clock-and-compass navigation, experience of controlled airspace and so on - and dabbled with hot-air ballooning for a while, but still feel you can't beat gliding for the pleasure, exhilaration and satisfaction of pure flight.
Misanthropes on gliding fields? Well, I guess there are always a few (didn't Platypus reckon that competition gliding required at least six of the seven deadly sins?), but for the most part you find remarkable warmth and generosity. As for the BGA, it strikes me - in recent years at least - as by far the most sensible, effective and professional of the sport organizations that I know, and is doing an excellent job of keeping our sport as free from external control and bureaucracy as possible.
Windrusher
Misanthropes on gliding fields? Well, I guess there are always a few (didn't Platypus reckon that competition gliding required at least six of the seven deadly sins?), but for the most part you find remarkable warmth and generosity. As for the BGA, it strikes me - in recent years at least - as by far the most sensible, effective and professional of the sport organizations that I know, and is doing an excellent job of keeping our sport as free from external control and bureaucracy as possible.
Windrusher
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Lots of people raise the issue of passenger carrying, what would you determine to be a fairer way to allow passengers to be carried by pilots?
Join Date: May 2005
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Lots of people raise the issue of passenger carrying, what would you determine to be a fairer way to allow passengers to be carried by pilots?
I think the main difficulty arises because of the delegation of power from the CAA to the BGA. The BGA has implemented this by requiring the CFI (via the duty instructor) to approve each pilot for flying from the site on a particular day. For solo flying, this is done via simple currency rules in most clubs, with the duty instructor having a veto (e.g. for early solo pilots in difficult conditions).
Indirectly, this imposes potential liability on the club if a pilot is permitted to fly when doing so created an unacceptable risk. The easiest way to cope with this is either to limit passenger flying to those with a formal qualification - the most objective/least risky is to require an instructor rating; alternatively the club can devise its own passenger carrying rating (meeting the BGA minimum experience, which I can't recall from memory), but this involves regular testing of pilots by the club for an activity which does not really benefit the club.
Add to this the fact that the club's two-seaters are probably in demand by club members for instructional/mutual flying, so that restricting passenger flying is a good way of ensuring that demand is met.Additionally, insurance requirements may limit two seaters to instructional flying unless both on board are solo, so extending insurance to non-instructional passenger carrying could be a cost.
At a previous club which had an "instructor only" rule I suggested to the CFI that we might start by allowing passengers to be carried by those who (a) had at some previous time been trained and achieved an instructor rating (demonstrating training helps avoid liability), (b) passed annual checks aimed at passenger carrying, and (c) were current under club rules. Even this was thought too difficult, although it would have applied to maybe two members.
Where the two-seater is not a club glider, there is still the problem of needing the instructor of the day's approval to launch. This may go away once formal licensing of glider pilots is introduced - if you have a licence whose privileges include carrying passengers, and are current, the club should have no liability from allowing you to launch. The current problem is that the only "qualification" at present is an instructor or club rating, and allowing an "unqualified" pilot to carry passengers creates a liability risk.
This is a long way of saying I don't have an easy answer.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
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glider pilots licence?
I don't know how it works in USA but this extract from the Colarodo Soaring Association faq states
'In the US, glider licenses are issued by the FAA, just like airplane licenses. The Private Pilot license for gliders allows you to carry passengers.'
That would answer the question - perhaps Bronze C would be equivalent to a PPL with area restricttion and Silver C as PPL without area restriction.
How do things work in other countries?
'In the US, glider licenses are issued by the FAA, just like airplane licenses. The Private Pilot license for gliders allows you to carry passengers.'
That would answer the question - perhaps Bronze C would be equivalent to a PPL with area restricttion and Silver C as PPL without area restriction.
How do things work in other countries?
rusty sparrow,
Here in the states, once you get your private pilot glider rating you are free to take who you please, where you please, regardless of badges held or not. You have to meet the FAA requirements for currency, 3 landings in 90 days. Our club requires attendance at an annual safety meeting and an annual field checkout. If somebody is observed doing something unsafe, either from recklessness or poor skills they are talked to by an instructor and it is taken care of. Most often happens with folks who adhere more to the minimum FAA standard, and shows in their poor energy management at landing. Does not happen often though.
-- IFMU
Here in the states, once you get your private pilot glider rating you are free to take who you please, where you please, regardless of badges held or not. You have to meet the FAA requirements for currency, 3 landings in 90 days. Our club requires attendance at an annual safety meeting and an annual field checkout. If somebody is observed doing something unsafe, either from recklessness or poor skills they are talked to by an instructor and it is taken care of. Most often happens with folks who adhere more to the minimum FAA standard, and shows in their poor energy management at landing. Does not happen often though.
-- IFMU