S211 Down Port Phillip Bay
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The following 2 users liked this post by 43Inches:
Moderator
I'm not one to indulge in itinerant banning but this is getting close to needing something along those lines, methinks. Can we just cool things down a bit, guys, and agree to disagree.
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Participation is voluntary!
How do you post memes? The one where Joaquin Phoenix as Commodus does the thumbs down. In this case to george
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To be honest, the ‘bully boy moderator’ probably should just kill the whole thing off. It’s just the same monomaniacal stuff being pushed over and over again, around and around we go, with nothing of value being achieved. Maybe start it up again when someone like the ATSB actually has some facts to offer and something worthwhile to contribute.
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It should be remembered that the root cause of this discussion is the untimely death of two people, and the horrific impact on the lives of many others. While I don't subscribe to the view that such things shouldn't be discussed it behoves us well to be respectful in our interaction. Shame on those of you who should have learnt about this sort of behaviour in the playground many years ago, it does us all a disservice
I 'liked' JT's post because of the reasonable request along with the restraint he showed. That said, given the subsequent post by one person, I think I'd also 'like' it if they had a little time on their own to cool off.
It should be remembered that the root cause of this discussion is the untimely death of two people, and the horrific impact on the lives of many others. While I don't subscribe to the view that such things shouldn't be discussed it behoves us well to be respectful in our interaction. Shame on those of you who should have learnt about this sort of behaviour in the playground many years ago, it does us all a disservice
It should be remembered that the root cause of this discussion is the untimely death of two people, and the horrific impact on the lives of many others. While I don't subscribe to the view that such things shouldn't be discussed it behoves us well to be respectful in our interaction. Shame on those of you who should have learnt about this sort of behaviour in the playground many years ago, it does us all a disservice
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UUmm....What was the Viper 1 "Safety Pilot" doing?!?
I can understand the handling pilot not seeing it, but the GIB?
The occupants of Viper 1 felt the collision but did not observe it.
It’s also a moot point, IMHO. I don’t think there’s anything much either pilot in Viper 1 could’ve done to avoid that collision. Inverted as they were, the only place they could’ve gone in a hurry was down - right where Viper 2 was, and not helpful. For me, this was a rapidly-developing situation where they had few/no options available to them. The fact is that as formation lead, there are times when you have to place complete faith in the other formation members not to hit you.
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No no, I do get that it's nowt to do with actually flying in formation - we can all do that solo afterall - and that the PIC of Viper 1 needed to fly with a Safety Pilot due his C2, but surely an Ex-Mil jet pilot, as the SP is reported to be, would understand that when you're flying formation one of the main goals is to avoid swapping paint, so the front seater flies, the back seater monitors the wingman's rejoin. If you're a safety pilot, that close to another airplane and you're not actually watching it, I'm curious as to what they were doing?
If you're a safety pilot, that close to another airplane and you're not actually watching it, I'm curious as to what they were doing?
KRaviator, if you consider that Viper 1 was inverted, with Viper 2 below, mostly behind, and crossing sides, it would be difficult to constantly monitor them. And even if you could, I doubt you’d have been able to avert this particular collision.
According to the ATSB video :
Viper 2 was planned/briefed to stay to one side and clear of viper 1 during any manoeuvres and for the shot.
Viper 2 did the fly under manoeuvre unbriefed the first time.
The safety pilot on V1 pointed this out to the pilot who then had a discussion with Viper 2 who explained that that manoeuvre provided a better shot and they agreed to try it again. (Anyone want to bet ‘what the f#ck is he doing’ was muttered by someone on V1?)
During the second attempt they had the impact.
Viper 2 was planned/briefed to stay to one side and clear of viper 1 during any manoeuvres and for the shot.
Viper 2 did the fly under manoeuvre unbriefed the first time.
The safety pilot on V1 pointed this out to the pilot who then had a discussion with Viper 2 who explained that that manoeuvre provided a better shot and they agreed to try it again. (Anyone want to bet ‘what the f#ck is he doing’ was muttered by someone on V1?)
During the second attempt they had the impact.
Interesting read. The manoeuvers were not sudden or high speed, however they got caught out.
The picture would indicate a stuck aileron, with a roll that they could not get out of. Just my read on it though.
The picture would indicate a stuck aileron, with a roll that they could not get out of. Just my read on it though.