Rotting ADF / VOR facilities
Yep. Horses for courses. I'm sure you'd work out a viable plan if faced with that situation. Lots of flat open space out that way, just make sure you don't whack the big rock in the middle of it.
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"What we have is 21st century technology, being regulated by 19th century regulation".
That pretty much says it all.
Jusy how do the Americans do it?
We have a miriad of "recency" and "renewal" requirements that require a "cray" computer to keep track of, which burdens an intrument rated pilot with enormous costs. Yet in America apparently one simple recency requirement is required. Just about every American pilot I know has undertaken training to gain an instrument rating, they are encouraged to do so because it makes them safer. Here the cost burden of overregulation positively discourages it.
Are we any safer than the US? debatable, but one thing is for sure, the burden of overregulation is killing our industry.
That pretty much says it all.
Jusy how do the Americans do it?
We have a miriad of "recency" and "renewal" requirements that require a "cray" computer to keep track of, which burdens an intrument rated pilot with enormous costs. Yet in America apparently one simple recency requirement is required. Just about every American pilot I know has undertaken training to gain an instrument rating, they are encouraged to do so because it makes them safer. Here the cost burden of overregulation positively discourages it.
Are we any safer than the US? debatable, but one thing is for sure, the burden of overregulation is killing our industry.
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Well on a positive note we are turning the HORSHAM NDB back on for training purposes and were able to negotiate it for a peppercorn.
Did any of you ask if you could takeover your radio aids?
Didn't think so , just like to whinge and whine..
NHILL is next.. cheers
Did any of you ask if you could takeover your radio aids?
Didn't think so , just like to whinge and whine..
NHILL is next.. cheers
Um...yeah....how are you going to 'train' on the NDB when there are no approaches available to train on?
Nhill will have the same problem....
Having an NDB radiating is one thing...getting it added to the airways network....not going to happen.
Nhill will have the same problem....
Having an NDB radiating is one thing...getting it added to the airways network....not going to happen.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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how are you going to 'train' on the NDB when there are no approaches available to train on?
PM me if you don't. I still have an intact set of East/West DAPS dating from June 2010.
Pinky, not quite my point.
Assuming the navaid will not be certified, because if it is, then it needs to be flight inspected and calibrated and operated in accordance with CASR 171, and I doubt Horsham could afford to pay for that.
If its not certified, then can it be used legally for training? Pretty sure it can't be used to get the rating...so whats the use? Are we really considering conducting training to a non certified navaid using photocopies of charts that have been withdrawn for more than 6 months?
How do you publish the NDB frequency of a non certified NDB?
I reckon ZAZ has been misinformed...
Alpha
Assuming the navaid will not be certified, because if it is, then it needs to be flight inspected and calibrated and operated in accordance with CASR 171, and I doubt Horsham could afford to pay for that.
If its not certified, then can it be used legally for training? Pretty sure it can't be used to get the rating...so whats the use? Are we really considering conducting training to a non certified navaid using photocopies of charts that have been withdrawn for more than 6 months?
How do you publish the NDB frequency of a non certified NDB?
I reckon ZAZ has been misinformed...
Alpha
Thread Starter
Alpha
If the aid does not have a LANDING approach attached to it, does it still require flight inspection?
There are some navaids which have training procedures. AsA was supposed to have created one for CWS after the Philip Is approach was withdrawn, but... we got the usual inactivity and procrastination and now the aid has been shut down.
The Wonthaggi aid was regularly used for training before it was shutdown. Many of us used the Mudgee approach which is high enough above the terrain to not be any problem.
If AsA had a real commitment to air safety, it would provide some training / currency aids and procedures.
If the aid does not have a LANDING approach attached to it, does it still require flight inspection?
There are some navaids which have training procedures. AsA was supposed to have created one for CWS after the Philip Is approach was withdrawn, but... we got the usual inactivity and procrastination and now the aid has been shut down.
The Wonthaggi aid was regularly used for training before it was shutdown. Many of us used the Mudgee approach which is high enough above the terrain to not be any problem.
If AsA had a real commitment to air safety, it would provide some training / currency aids and procedures.
Akro, (first note this is little uncharted territory here, I don't have a definitive answer I am just describing how the regs work)
In order for the navaid to be published under Part 175, it needs to be operating under Part 171, and under Part 171 is where all the operating requirements come from. The regs don't distinguish between navaids with approaches and navaids without. I guess what I am trying to say is either a navaid is part of the airways network or it its not.
If you publish the navaid then the assumption is that it is an available network navigation facility, and can be used as such. In this case, this is not the intention.
I don't see how they are going to make the navaid available without putting it back on the network...and that is going to cost a lot of dollars, this goes way beyond the peppercorn arrangement that was suggested. My guess is that as Air services hasn't pulled it out of the ground yet and it is probably still radiating, so it can be used....until Airservices rip it out of the ground. But it definitely won't be officially available and definitely won't be recommissioned. Its operating on borrowed time.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. AsA were not supposed to do any such thing. AsA were asked if it was possible, and under the current regs it was a breach of regulation to provide such an approach. This was advised back to the RAPAC representative along with an indication that we would not be providing such an approach (I have the email). The fact it went no further is an issue, but I can't fix that.
There, I fixed it for you. This is not a responsibility of Airservices
Alpha
In order for the navaid to be published under Part 175, it needs to be operating under Part 171, and under Part 171 is where all the operating requirements come from. The regs don't distinguish between navaids with approaches and navaids without. I guess what I am trying to say is either a navaid is part of the airways network or it its not.
If you publish the navaid then the assumption is that it is an available network navigation facility, and can be used as such. In this case, this is not the intention.
I don't see how they are going to make the navaid available without putting it back on the network...and that is going to cost a lot of dollars, this goes way beyond the peppercorn arrangement that was suggested. My guess is that as Air services hasn't pulled it out of the ground yet and it is probably still radiating, so it can be used....until Airservices rip it out of the ground. But it definitely won't be officially available and definitely won't be recommissioned. Its operating on borrowed time.
There are some navaids which have training procedures. AsA was supposed to have created one for CWS after the Philip Is approach was withdrawn, but... we got the usual inactivity and procrastination and now the aid has been shut down.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. AsA were not supposed to do any such thing. AsA were asked if it was possible, and under the current regs it was a breach of regulation to provide such an approach. This was advised back to the RAPAC representative along with an indication that we would not be providing such an approach (I have the email). The fact it went no further is an issue, but I can't fix that.
If CASA had a real commitment to air safety, it would provide some training / currency aids and procedures.
There, I fixed it for you. This is not a responsibility of Airservices
Alpha
