A Part 61 conundrum for Australian ATPL applicants

[manymak]

fpvdude, morno is right. You're ready way too much into it. The Skippers F100 operation is effectively a start up so they will be recruiting for experience.

[RequestAsymmetrics]

I think it's fair enough to ask for the ATPL since it's a start-up op. There must still be plenty of ATPLs looking for gigs in Oz. But the 457 visa line really gets on my nerves

[morno]

Obviously you also have an ATPL Morno

Yes I do.

now at the whim of their employer, or stuck on GA with not many upward options

No overseas opportunities anymore, no majors, and now, competing with 457 Vias overseas pilots at regional airlines as an FO..

If you are obtaining a Command, I dare say your flight test will be included in the upgrade process. If you so choose to go overseas, then that should be at your cost, not your employers. We're not the only country in the world requiring a flight test for an ATPL (complexities of which seat it need's to be in aside).

This is the first ad that I have seen requiring an ATPL since the new rules, however has been pointed out, it's a new operation (apparently). Didn't Skywest also get some guys in from overseas to fly the ATR's when they first started?

Honestly mate, would you really be happy if you were in these kids position?

You're acting as though the sky is falling fpv. Good luck to companies who think they will get away with 457 Visa's for anything other than start up operations like this.

Would I be happpy? I may not be applying to Skipper's, but I'm sure there's still plenty of operators who aren't requiring an ATPL.

Maybe answer this question for me:
Why should ATPL's be given out in Corn Flakes boxes just because you reach 1,500hrs? Should CPL's be given out when you reach 150hrs?

morno

[739]

Further to the theme of this part 61 mess, I was recently made aware of a mate who got an airline gig overseas and has been asked to present her instrument rating with 6 months validity remaining on it. However she has already been issued with a Part 61 licence and as we all know there is no expiry date on her MEA IR.

So she rang up CASA and asked about it, answer: her instrument rating is valid as long as she is under the cyclic program of her company, once she leaves though, it becomes invalid. (bit of a joke really if she has to go and do a instrument proficiency check in a Duchess just to get a year's validity on her IR)

What a mess ...

[Centaurus]

This is the first ad that I have seen requiring an ATPL since the new rules,

Jet-Connect in NZ require an applicant to hold an ATPL before being considered for an interview. Several would-be hopefuls were refused interviews despite having over 1000 hours as first officer on the Boeing Classic/NG with Australian ATPL subjects.
To rub salt in the wounds these hopefuls are not permitted to undergo an ATPL flight (simulator) test because they don't have an Australian MCC course and there is no CASA MCC approved course in Australia for other than airline sponsorship like Cathay or Dragonair Hong Kong which are not CASA approved anyway.

[roundsounds]

Whoever is being told they cannot sit an ATPL flight test without having completed a MCC is being mislead. CASA have deferred the requirement until September 2015, the instrument stating such is on the CASA website.

[Nomde plume]

roundsounds
Whoever is being told they cannot sit an ATPL flight test without having completed a MCC is being mislead. CASA have deferred the requirement until September 2015, the instrument stating such is on the CASA website.

Mind posting a link to this 'instrument'?

Casa website shows Sep 2015 for PPL/CPL multi crew only. ATPL requires MCC from sep 2014 here:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Multi-crew cooperation training

[das Uber Soldat]

Didn't want to make a new thread.

I wouldn't have a big drama with this if the upgrade process was rolled into the former CAR217 C&T department. You do your command training, and then as part of that process, are assessed for the ATPL flight test.

However currently, only CASA has authority to actually conduct the bloody flight test. My sim isn't even in Australia! The costs to the company to do this are large, and they will obviously make decisions to minimize that cost.

This effectively means no CPL FO is eligible for career progression outside the company they are in. Nobody is interested in someone with subjects only. So I either wait a million years for a command at my current company, or go hire a sim/casa fte/2nd pilot and fly them all to NZ on my own dime to get it done (christ knows how much that would cost).

CASA really needs to delegate the authority to conduct this flight test to selected members of the C&T department.

[tocum]

CASA ATPL

G'day people

I'd appreciate if you folks could shed some light on this issue.

Situation:
I am a Non Australian resident and obtained my first licence CPL/IR - CASA with fATPL

I then obtained a South African licence SA CPL/IR and actively working overseas in Multicrew environment(DH8D).

I now meet the hours requirement for a full CASA ATPL which will help me with my SA ATPL.
Is there a way to ask any exemption to the new CASA regulation and conduct the flying component of the CASA ATPL flight test on my next Dash 8 recurrency?

Also, I see to be eligible for an ATPL licence one need an AVID/ASIC security card, which can only be applied once one get in Australia.
How can a non resident obtain a licence without an AVID/ASIC?

Many thanks and I look forward to your replies.

TOC

[Oktas8]

Ask CASA. I suspect the answer will be No! - but it's always good to ask, and they are quite happy to talk about problems.

[FO Cokebottle]

tocum:

I am a Non Australian resident and obtained my first licence CPL/IR - CASA with fATPL

What is a fATPL?

If you are referring to "Frozen" when prefixing the ATPL with "f" then you are incorrect and/or misled.

There is no such qualification as a "Frozen Air Transport Pilot License" - this term has crept into the industry with Europe and the P2F cancer and when the fully integrated CPL/MEIR course was approved by CASA. It was trumpeted by the flying schools (including those in Europe) offering this course as the qualification you gained upon completion.

The qualification is: CPL/MEIR with ATPL subjects passed.

Is there a way to ask any exemption to the new CASA regulation and conduct the flying component of the CASA ATPL flight test on my next Dash 8 recurrency?

CASA has a CAAP that deals with checking and recurrency, conducted outside of Australia, for the purpose of maintaining Australian (CASA) License currency/qualifications . In short, it is an even more expensive option.

A far less onerous option would be to gain a FAA ATP Certificate. However, there has been a tightening up of the requirements for a direct issue of the ATP Certificate.

Best of luck on the Saffa ATP.

[filip85]

Im in the same boat, I have the hrs for ATPL and most of my hours are as a FO on a non australian registered B737. The only way for me to sit the ATPL flight test is to have completed a MCC course. And the only one who can do it in Oz is CAE oxford in Melbourne. And its a whopping $9,350 inclusive of GST.

[Centaurus]

And its a whopping $9,350 inclusive of GST.

An MCC course, of which the content has already largely been covered in the ATPL and CPL examinations, is nothing more than a regurgitation of these previous exams. How many expensive sim sessions does it take to learn read a checklist??

[Bankrupt84]

Is $9,000 including the ATPL flight test?

A friend just went to Canada to do his ATPL flight test in a Seneca, cost around $2000.
Perhaps a better option.

[filip85]

This price is just the mcc, 2 weeks and 20 hrs sim on a level b. just pointless especially for me as i fly the 737. On top of that you need to do the flight test for the ATPL and i dont know if there are any examiners capable of doing the sim check or just from casa which cost $700. And at the moment there is only one place at oxford, im waiting for other schools to be approved and i hear it will be almost half price.

[samurai]

Estimates 28 May '15 - CASA v Sterle Part61 Pt1
https://youtu.be/pXggRSLyY0g

Estimates 28 May '15 - CASA v Sterle Part61 Pt2
https://youtu.be/v_lLcuylV7s

How many untruths can you find from these two videos?

[vhxxxx]

MCC COURSE

MATS are an Australian MCC course provider.

[ersa]

What a bunch of turkeys, how the hell is the average pilot suppose to know if by looking at the youtube senate clips....CASA has no idea

[kingRB]

some of the responses from 10 min onwards in the second vid would be laughable if I didn't know these twats were running the show.

[A330-343E]

Hi guys,

I would appreciate if there is any update regarding this matter as I am in the same boat as tocum.

Here's my situation:

1. frozen CASA ATPL
2. CASA CPL/ MECIR, converted into Hong Kong CPL
3. Valid Airbus A320/ A330 type rating as I'm now working in HK - enough hours and be eligible to unfreeze my ATPL.
4. Have completed MCC course with in UK
5. Not a permanent resident in Aus

Thanks.