UK to US airline move
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UK to US airline move
Looking for some advice... I've scoured the internet but can't quite figure out the right answer!
I am a British Citizen with an EASA CPL/IR and an A320 type rating and am on course to have 1500 hrs/+1000 Turbofan time with a major UK airline by next Autumn. My partner is an American Citizen and moving them here isn't an option. I have a BSc (Hons) and am familiar with the visa/right to work requirements. I'm exploring all the different options for making the distance work, one of which is moving to the US and transferring to a US carrier.
My questions are:
1. Conversion to an FAA ATPL - is there any advantage in waiting until my EASA ATPL is unfrozen before converting or should I get working on the ground school/CPL/IR/ATP course now?
2. Do I actually have a chance of getting into one of the major carriers straightaway or will I have to take the regional jet step?
3. If I am offered a job, on average what is the wait time for beginning work?
If anyone has any experience doing this recently I'd really appreciate any advice you could give me. I'm trying to do everything as efficiently as possible so I don't want to make the wrong move or have false expectations.
Thanks for your help.
I am a British Citizen with an EASA CPL/IR and an A320 type rating and am on course to have 1500 hrs/+1000 Turbofan time with a major UK airline by next Autumn. My partner is an American Citizen and moving them here isn't an option. I have a BSc (Hons) and am familiar with the visa/right to work requirements. I'm exploring all the different options for making the distance work, one of which is moving to the US and transferring to a US carrier.
My questions are:
1. Conversion to an FAA ATPL - is there any advantage in waiting until my EASA ATPL is unfrozen before converting or should I get working on the ground school/CPL/IR/ATP course now?
2. Do I actually have a chance of getting into one of the major carriers straightaway or will I have to take the regional jet step?
3. If I am offered a job, on average what is the wait time for beginning work?
If anyone has any experience doing this recently I'd really appreciate any advice you could give me. I'm trying to do everything as efficiently as possible so I don't want to make the wrong move or have false expectations.
Thanks for your help.
Last edited by APjunkie; 8th Sep 2017 at 03:02.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It isn't obvious to me why getting the right to work in the US isn't an issue for you, unless you are planning on marrying your partner, but if you say so....
If that's your plan, be aware that a spouse visa needs to be applied for from outside of the country and will take at least six months.
You will need to complete an ATP-CTP course at an approved school like ATP Flight School, which you could bang out in a week. It's 30 hours of ground school and 10 hours of sim and costs about $4,500. Then you can take the written and practical tests. Before you start the course, however, you will need the FAA to validate your foreign CPL, and you will need to apply for TSA approval to undergo flight training in the US. These are paperwork bits that take a little time. The flight schools will be able to help you with all of that and answer any questions you might have. As far as the airlines go, you might get a job at a major airline with just 1500 hours, but your problem is that they probably won't start looking at your application until you get your license and your green card, and you won't get your green card until you move there. You will be likely to get a job with a regional airline a lot faster than with a major, so you may want to apply everywhere and take the first offer that comes along, unless you are happy commuting back to your old job in the UK for awhile.
If that's your plan, be aware that a spouse visa needs to be applied for from outside of the country and will take at least six months.
You will need to complete an ATP-CTP course at an approved school like ATP Flight School, which you could bang out in a week. It's 30 hours of ground school and 10 hours of sim and costs about $4,500. Then you can take the written and practical tests. Before you start the course, however, you will need the FAA to validate your foreign CPL, and you will need to apply for TSA approval to undergo flight training in the US. These are paperwork bits that take a little time. The flight schools will be able to help you with all of that and answer any questions you might have. As far as the airlines go, you might get a job at a major airline with just 1500 hours, but your problem is that they probably won't start looking at your application until you get your license and your green card, and you won't get your green card until you move there. You will be likely to get a job with a regional airline a lot faster than with a major, so you may want to apply everywhere and take the first offer that comes along, unless you are happy commuting back to your old job in the UK for awhile.
Uh no need for the CPL conversion.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#se14.2.61_1153
Read 61.153 and use your ICAO ATP.
Everybody wants to go to the Majors including many with more much more experience then you.
Minimum time to be SIC in 121 operations is 1500 hrs.
Join a Regional with a flow through program to a Major like everybody else.
It would behove you to study the applicable FAA publications that are all freely available on the FAA website.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/
When hired they'll expect you to be up to speed with how things are done in the USA as "back home we do it THIS way " gets old real quick
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#se14.2.61_1153
Read 61.153 and use your ICAO ATP.
Everybody wants to go to the Majors including many with more much more experience then you.
Minimum time to be SIC in 121 operations is 1500 hrs.
Join a Regional with a flow through program to a Major like everybody else.
It would behove you to study the applicable FAA publications that are all freely available on the FAA website.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/
When hired they'll expect you to be up to speed with how things are done in the USA as "back home we do it THIS way " gets old real quick
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
Thank you for your responses. There's lots of unclear/out of date/contradictory information around and I've ended up tying myself up in knots trying to figure everything out so I appreciate you clearing up a few things.
Long Haul - I will take a look at the regionals and see if that route could be a better starting point. Thank you.
B2N2 - thank you for the link, that's very helpful. I've had a lot of contradicting advice on license requirements so that clears that up!
Button push - thankfully it's a real degree! I understand I'm not going to stand out in the US based solely on my flying experience but hopefully at least be able to hold my own against the other candidates.
Thank you for your responses. There's lots of unclear/out of date/contradictory information around and I've ended up tying myself up in knots trying to figure everything out so I appreciate you clearing up a few things.
Long Haul - I will take a look at the regionals and see if that route could be a better starting point. Thank you.
B2N2 - thank you for the link, that's very helpful. I've had a lot of contradicting advice on license requirements so that clears that up!
Button push - thankfully it's a real degree! I understand I'm not going to stand out in the US based solely on my flying experience but hopefully at least be able to hold my own against the other candidates.
If you're all civilian with a bare 1,500 hours, you won't get anywhere EXCEPT a regional assuming you get the "right to work" here. The average off the street major hire has well over 5,000 hours, 1,000 jet PIC, a four-year degree and some "outside" stuff like check airman, chief pilot, volunteer work, etc. And many of those guys aren't getting called. It's still very competitive.
GF
GF
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Button push - thankfully some of the assumptions I made seem to match what you've said. I hope despite having low hours, the fact they are A320 hours will be more appealing to a recruitment team. I should have been clearer, I do have a decent BSc Hons so should satisfy the requirements.
I am considering all options, including commuting, before I make a jump to the US as it's a big decision, finances, US differences etc all weigh in. I've been around aviation a while now so know how tricky it is to get a foot in the door anywhere let alone in a foreign country. So for now getting myself set up to at least be able to apply for a job in the US seems a sensible starting point. Whether or not I'll be successful straightaway is another matter!
I am considering all options, including commuting, before I make a jump to the US as it's a big decision, finances, US differences etc all weigh in. I've been around aviation a while now so know how tricky it is to get a foot in the door anywhere let alone in a foreign country. So for now getting myself set up to at least be able to apply for a job in the US seems a sensible starting point. Whether or not I'll be successful straightaway is another matter!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being female reduces the resume requirements but it doesn't reduce them below a certain level.
In the U.S. the airlines typically don't care if you have a type rating on their fleet type. SW used to require it, then preferred it, now they don't care. Everyone goes through the full type rating course as a new hire. No short courses.
If you show up and think that having 1000 hrs in type, with 1500 TT, makes you more employable in the U.S. it might come across as a negative - it shows a lack of understanding what the U.S. recruiters consider competitive. MPL/PPF
I found recent resumes of pilots hired at the secondary airlines that button push ignored mentioned -
7300TT 4000T 350 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
5000TT 4500T 0 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
4700TT 2550 TPIC 3 types
3800TT 1800 MEL
2700TT 1300PIC 1200T current 121 FO
2500TT 1200T 100 TPIC (121 CA)
Your resume is below all of the known resumes of recent new hires. I wouldn't plan on bypassing the regionals. At 2500 TT you might consider yourself competitive for transitioning to an LCC (second tier airline). At that point you'd match the qualifications of the lowest known resume I found.
The number of less than 3000TT new hires, even at the LCC's, is fairly low in the U.S. Understand that and based your expectations on that.
The average U.S. new hire has 5000-7500TT and 3000-4000 PIC. Being female will reduce that somewhat. It will not be 1500TT because you have a 320 type rating.
In the U.S. the airlines typically don't care if you have a type rating on their fleet type. SW used to require it, then preferred it, now they don't care. Everyone goes through the full type rating course as a new hire. No short courses.
If you show up and think that having 1000 hrs in type, with 1500 TT, makes you more employable in the U.S. it might come across as a negative - it shows a lack of understanding what the U.S. recruiters consider competitive. MPL/PPF
I found recent resumes of pilots hired at the secondary airlines that button push ignored mentioned -
7300TT 4000T 350 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
5000TT 4500T 0 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
4700TT 2550 TPIC 3 types
3800TT 1800 MEL
2700TT 1300PIC 1200T current 121 FO
2500TT 1200T 100 TPIC (121 CA)
Your resume is below all of the known resumes of recent new hires. I wouldn't plan on bypassing the regionals. At 2500 TT you might consider yourself competitive for transitioning to an LCC (second tier airline). At that point you'd match the qualifications of the lowest known resume I found.
The number of less than 3000TT new hires, even at the LCC's, is fairly low in the U.S. Understand that and based your expectations on that.
The average U.S. new hire has 5000-7500TT and 3000-4000 PIC. Being female will reduce that somewhat. It will not be 1500TT because you have a 320 type rating.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your resume is below all of the known resumes of recent new hires. I wouldn't plan on bypassing the regionals. At 2500 TT you might consider yourself competitive for transitioning to an LCC (second tier airline). At that point you'd match the qualifications of the lowest known resume I found.
Except at 2700TT he had just transitioned to the left seat. Command experience is valued.
And 'pay to fly', ad inhibito(sp?) and MPL experience is not valued highly. Most candidates in the U.S. have done at least 2 jobs, if not three, with 1500 TT. There's a value to different experiences in one's background, especially when one's resume is still shallow.
Except at 2700TT he had just transitioned to the left seat. Command experience is valued.
And 'pay to fly', ad inhibito(sp?) and MPL experience is not valued highly. Most candidates in the U.S. have done at least 2 jobs, if not three, with 1500 TT. There's a value to different experiences in one's background, especially when one's resume is still shallow.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the problem I see with her staying overseas after reaching 1500TT if her goal is to fly for a U.S. major -
Commuting from the U.K. to the U.S. for 15-18 months within no online passes?
Does her schedule have that sort of space? Like 6/6, 7/7, 14/14?
With 2500TT she will have zero U.S. flying experience, zero U.S. experience, and zero U.S. training and might be a long way from getting PIC time.
Does her British degree meet the education standards the U.S. airlines require? IDK.
She has a competitive advantage by being female. But I doubt they'll lower their minimums. Instead perhaps she'll get considered once she reaches the minimums vs. having to target achieving the average resume.
If her degree doesn't qualify for the four yr degree requirement she can go to one of AA wholly owned regional carriers. That's about a six year flow to AA.
If her degree isn't reconginzed her experience and British education credits might allow her to get s four year degree online in two to three years. If she came here next fall in three years she could have a four yr online degree, if her British degree isn't accepted, and about four thousand hours TT. By then, at most regionals, she'd probably have upgraded. With that TT, a left seat command on her resume including five hundred hrs TPIC, at tleast two types ratings, over two thousand hours U.S. experience, IMO she'd be very competitive. I just don't see how staying at her European job increases her odds. It's just more and more of doing the same flying, and outside of the U.S. with no U.S. experience.
Airline Pilot Central is where I found those resumes. I don't recall seeing any foreign pilot, with no U.S. experience, especially 121 experience, getting hired by a U.S. major. It might have happened but it's a low probability path especially for a non competitive, or barely competitive, resume.
The U.S. airlines value command experience. Even just passing the training. So for many young guys the decision is do they stay for a regional upgrade, and get one thousand hours TPIC, or do they go to an LCC and hope that experience triggers interest from a major airline. It's hotly debated but most airlines aren't saying what their key requirements are but DL has said to be highly competitive you need one thousand hrs TPIC.
Commuting from the U.K. to the U.S. for 15-18 months within no online passes?
Does her schedule have that sort of space? Like 6/6, 7/7, 14/14?
With 2500TT she will have zero U.S. flying experience, zero U.S. experience, and zero U.S. training and might be a long way from getting PIC time.
Does her British degree meet the education standards the U.S. airlines require? IDK.
She has a competitive advantage by being female. But I doubt they'll lower their minimums. Instead perhaps she'll get considered once she reaches the minimums vs. having to target achieving the average resume.
If her degree doesn't qualify for the four yr degree requirement she can go to one of AA wholly owned regional carriers. That's about a six year flow to AA.
If her degree isn't reconginzed her experience and British education credits might allow her to get s four year degree online in two to three years. If she came here next fall in three years she could have a four yr online degree, if her British degree isn't accepted, and about four thousand hours TT. By then, at most regionals, she'd probably have upgraded. With that TT, a left seat command on her resume including five hundred hrs TPIC, at tleast two types ratings, over two thousand hours U.S. experience, IMO she'd be very competitive. I just don't see how staying at her European job increases her odds. It's just more and more of doing the same flying, and outside of the U.S. with no U.S. experience.
Airline Pilot Central is where I found those resumes. I don't recall seeing any foreign pilot, with no U.S. experience, especially 121 experience, getting hired by a U.S. major. It might have happened but it's a low probability path especially for a non competitive, or barely competitive, resume.
The U.S. airlines value command experience. Even just passing the training. So for many young guys the decision is do they stay for a regional upgrade, and get one thousand hours TPIC, or do they go to an LCC and hope that experience triggers interest from a major airline. It's hotly debated but most airlines aren't saying what their key requirements are but DL has said to be highly competitive you need one thousand hrs TPIC.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All the above is eyewash without a green card. You will get a job. Being female and British (the accent thing 
) and having A320 time, will get you a leg up on many with comparable flight time. Good luck.
) and having A320 time, will get you a leg up on many with comparable flight time. Good luck.
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I asked something regarding a degree from Australia and its equivalency in another topic http://www.pprune.org/north-america/598481-foreign-degree-australian-recognition.html
It might help a little in understanding where you stand regarding your education. The ultimate thing to do is to quickly get your education accredited by a NACES member; DL prefers Josef from what I've heard. Good luck.
It might help a little in understanding where you stand regarding your education. The ultimate thing to do is to quickly get your education accredited by a NACES member; DL prefers Josef from what I've heard. Good luck.
Well, since you asked...
When you say "partner", does that represent circumstances allowing a form of marriage recognized as a legal marriage by the Perfumed Princes of the American Imperial Federal Kakistocracy ?
If so, GET !! A !! GREEN !! CARD !! That'll slay a very big dragon so you can go about the business of flying here if that's what you intend.
As for going to a "legacy" pax or freight carrier, anything is possible; it's probability that's the obstacle.
You'll likely face a stint at a US regional who'll get you an FAA ATP...at no cost to you as it should be.
You'd be SHOCKED at the qualifications of people here who can't even get an interview with the likes of UAL, AA, DL, JB, UPS, FedEx, etc. There just isn't any shortage at that level...in fact, there's apparently a surfeit.
Best of luck in your efforts. Work the system to your advantage.
Last edited by bafanguy; 11th Sep 2017 at 21:04.
