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North America Still the busiest region for commercial aviation.

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Old 23rd Aug 2016, 18:56   #101 (permalink)
 
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Lots of guys flew Navajos and turboprops for the last decade here in the US. It wasn't until recently that we've seen all this movement.
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Old 24th Aug 2016, 06:37   #102 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
"The regionals will have to hire from Europe and Canada."

Slug,

I'd expect that if things here were as bad as all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth by experts would seem to suggest, the regionals (and TP freight feeders who advertise constantly) would've made more of an effort to get the ruling junta to allow expats here; there appears to be at least some interest from them in coming. So far, I don't see any of that happening and it'd be a hard secret to keep (and why would they anyway ?). They've had access to Aussies for long enough that any formal pursuit of that supply would've happened by now if they intended to use it; nothing...zero...nada in a formal industry/company-initiated effort that I've heard of.

Barring any events yet to emerge, the only conclusion I can draw from the empirical evidence is there are enough pilots to keep the seats filled and wheels turning despite the meddling of the kakistocracy.
We're only in the very beginning of the crisis. United and their acquisition, Continental, outsourced flying to a ridiculous degree. Like putting ERJs on flights between Newark and Atlanta. They can't bring on new 737s fast enough, their customer satisfaction scores have cratered because of regional cancellations due to understaffing. Delta bought all of AirTran/Southwest's 717s because they had to replace the DC-9-50s coming offline from Northwest, plus regional cutbacks.

I'm lucky in that my parents paid for my college education and flight training. However for kids without that advantage, why choose a college degree in flight? You're going to be 100k in debt (if you go public school), and stuck hauling freight on a Metroliner for $17 an hour after graduation since you can't get a job at a regional.

I think university programs provide a modicum of responsibility for future pilots that a Florida/Arizona ATP program does not. They'll take your money for a third/fourth retake of a checkride. The older guys I fly with are mostly former military. I will never compare myself to them, even if they were humping a C-130. Those guys are retiring at an unbelievable pace. A got a line, albeit in a very unpopular domicile, within a year.

"Show me the $$$ (and the quality of life) and I'll apply to a regional. Until then I'll stick with corporate/135."

Different strokes for different folks. I always saw myself hauling passengers as the ultimate bus driver. I have loved commercial aircraft from when I was a kid and watched planes take off at Gravelly Point.
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Old 24th Aug 2016, 12:06   #103 (permalink)
 
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$17 an hour?? I started out as a flight instructor making $33 an hour.
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Old 24th Aug 2016, 22:52   #104 (permalink)
 
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Sky Slug do you mind elaborate little more "quality of life"?
Aviation is a 24/7 365 days a year and not a Monday-Friday 9 to 5
Kind of business.
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Old 25th Aug 2016, 04:29   #105 (permalink)
 
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Sky Slug was quoting me re quality of life. The usual options with regionals are:

1. Move to an *assigned* base. Bad luck if it's not one you want (if they happen to have one that you & your spouse want). Have you considered your partner's career, and your childrens' school. Bad luck, again, if they're comfortably settled where you currently live.

More bad luck if (or more likely, when) the regional closes that base because they didn't get the contract renewed from the major for those routes for the next 3 years.

2. Commute. Now you need to pay - on what can be little more than McDonalds wages - for a crash pad at your assigned base, and you get to spend your 1 or 2 days off between tours commuting back & forth.

Last edited by Tinstaafl; 19th Nov 2016 at 22:29.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 06:18   #106 (permalink)


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"The 1500 hour rule is killing aviation programs in US universities that have great reputations like UND and ERAU. How many of the regional accidents in the last two decades have been caused by their graduates vs. some guy who went to a Florida "get your ATP quick program" or local FBO a program? Zero.

Colgan put a non-screened, washout loser as a CA in charge of a DH4 flight to Buffalo. If he had failed the number of check-rides in a university environment, he would've been told to get an English degree. He ran his plane into a bunch of houses."

Not saying those universities aren't doing good work, but that guy had a terrible record and should've been washed out at many points along the way so I doubt his choice of universities would've made any difference. Aside from that, he could've been an excellent instructor in 172's but that's a bit different to PIC Q400 at night, in weather.
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Old 28th Aug 2016, 14:39   #107 (permalink)
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ALPA statement on regional pay:

News Room - ALPA

Just to add some comparisons from a company NOT mentioned in the ALPA article (for whatever that means), here's some recent data on Expressjet...crunch your own numbers:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...nal/expressjet

As of May, 2016, XJT CRJ seniority list, 37% of the pilots had been there 15 years or more.

Oh, and by the way, insignificant retirements:

2016=?
2015=19
2014=19

Last edited by bafanguy; 28th Aug 2016 at 22:41. Reason: Add XJT data
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 04:41   #108 (permalink)
 
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Attorneys: Airline concerned about pilot's ability before 2009 crash - CNN.com

The problem is that CA Renslow (rest in peace) struggled even at upgrading from a Saab 340 to the DH4. However Colgan was expanding rapidly as Continental put more mainline flying to really cheap regionals like Colgan. We lost a lot of positions at EWR because Continental started using Colgan extensively. Colgan failed to do appropriate background checks on him. They also paired him with an FO (may she rest in peace) that was trained at an FBO and commuted in from SEA via a red-eye FedEx flight through Memphis the previous evening. She slept in the crew room while awaiting her evening's flight.

We had a lot of older pilots at XJT (or BTA, as it was known) and all of them were great to work with. Nearly all of them were Houston-based, and had wives and kids. A lot of them planned on staying for the duration of their career. It made sense for a lot of them to just stay on at the top of payscale until retirement instead of transitioning to FO positions at a major. ExpressJet was a great airline to work for and they made me a better pilot.

Last edited by Sky Slug; 31st Aug 2016 at 05:02.
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 11:02   #109 (permalink)
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The latest headhunting effort by Air Wisconsin:

Airman Trainee

Still leaves a few unanswered questions...

P.S. I saw one version of this announcement saying there are interviews on Sept. 16/17 in SJU. Why SJU ?

Last edited by bafanguy; 31st Aug 2016 at 12:06.
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 13:20   #110 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
The latest headhunting effort by Air Wisconsin:

Airman Trainee

Still leaves a few unanswered questions...

P.S. I saw one version of this announcement saying there are interviews on Sept. 16/17 in SJU. Why SJU ?

Hmmm, interesting. There doesn't seem to be anything involved which assists in getting to 1500 hours from the 500 minimum. Just kind of a placeholder for when you do make it. Wonder how much this position pays. Maybe I could get a dozen or so of these "trainee" positions, do the monthly training modules in the hotel when I'm on the road and cash the paychecks. Be a nice little income supplement.
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 14:06   #111 (permalink)
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"There doesn't seem to be anything involved which assists in getting to 1500 hours from the 500 minimum."

A x A,

Yep, that's the problem built into the system these days...and needs to be addressed by the carriers if supply is really all that critical. Some carriers seem to be addressing that by setting up CFI-to-regional programs but I don't see mention of that in the AWA announcement.

Inter-American University is in SJU and has an AABI-certified flight program:

Inter American University of PR ? School of Aeronautics

Maybe AWA feels it's easier for them to get to the broke college students than the other way around so they're doing interviews there ?
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 14:07   #112 (permalink)
 
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And by the time you get to 1500 hours, Air Wisconsin will no longer be around, so double win! (Sarcasm)
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 14:19   #113 (permalink)
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" And by the time you get to 1500 hours, Air Wisconsin will no longer be around..."

Z,

The demise of the regional system has certainly been predicted. I'm sure no businessman but have to wonder if the legacies can afford to let it die (or euthanize it) when it provides such a huge chunk of their system flying. I forget the exact number now but remember reading that 40+% of DL's flying is regional feed...and AA is similar ?

Bringing that level of flying under the "real" mainline umbrella would be time consuming and expensive, would it not ? And, it'd require the legacies to hire even greater numbers of pilots than they now need just to replace attrition.

Last edited by bafanguy; 31st Aug 2016 at 14:38.
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 14:39   #114 (permalink)
 
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Air Wisconsin currently does not have a contract with any airline. Air Wisconsin's contract with American expired, and AWAC is exercising their option to extend by two years with no secured flying at the end of the extension. Pilots or jumping ship left and right with no announcement of future flying. Many pilots there are only giving the company a couple more months before they too decide to pull chocks.
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Old 31st Aug 2016, 18:46   #115 (permalink)
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" Air Wisconsin currently does not have a contract with any airline."

Z,

Yes, it'd be hard to get rats to jump on what they perceive as a sinking ship...particularly with so many other "ships" available.

But as for the regional business model, the big industry players seem devoted to it judging by the amount of their system flying done by it. Changing their ways is possible but lots would have to be undone, most of it seemingly expensive.
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Old 9th Sep 2016, 20:59   #116 (permalink)
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Looks like Trans States is putting out the hard sell...including saying, "Don't worry...you won't have to work here very long." Heck of a selling point:

http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/pilots.aspx
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Old 13th Sep 2016, 17:49   #117 (permalink)
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Anyone able to supply the entire article ?:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-pains-428805/
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Old 14th Sep 2016, 07:46   #118 (permalink)
 
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You just have to register a free account to view the article
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Old 14th Sep 2016, 21:35   #119 (permalink)
 
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Envoy announced pay raises today. First year starting at over $37/HR (up from $26) and singing bonuses (ranging from $15,000-$20,000) and retention bonuses.

PSA also announced a similar pay increase.

This leaves Mesa, Air Wisconsin, and Piedmont without significant first year pay increases.

Last edited by zondaracer; 14th Sep 2016 at 23:10.
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Old 15th Sep 2016, 05:26   #120 (permalink)
 
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UAL started a program with Lufthansa. LH has a cadet training center in Arizona. You need to be a CFI. You get hired into the program as a CFI for LH in AZ. After you get your 1500 hrs/ATP, then you go directly to UAL as a narrow-body FO..skipping the regionals. Announced Aug, 2016.
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