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Nordic Forum It smells a bit of snow and ice and big hairy vikings chasing lusty maidens around after lots of mjød and loud partying. Forum languages are Svenska, Dansk, Norsk & English.


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Old 23rd Jul 2012, 22:58   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 1,469
Quote:
l be damed if i`m gonna let you bitter guyes shit on my pride!! I have worked my ass off becoming what i am today! have worked for norwegian for 3 years now, and before that i worked in a small cargo airline flying turboprops. Before that i was sleeping in hangars in my sleeping bag just to log one flight hour!
Sounds quite familiar...hope the TC will improve in a few years time so I can enjoy Scandinavian fresh air again
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 03:53   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
Shit on your pride Init-Ref? Seriously?
Worked your ass off to earn where you are today?
Buying isn't earning, ******* up relationships on the way to a bought seniority number isn't just sad, it's also immensely stupid.
Reality hit us just when people like you started to buy their way into the industry.
Every piss-take on your beloved organization where you as a group actually manage to make matters worse for all the rest of us in the Nordic region is validated.
You probably should stay out of the discussion (your treat), and please, for the sake of the professional pilots on this forum do not confuse your bruised (altough bought) ego with pilots who actually worked for and earned their position.
You and your friends who work/have worked for DY have done what you can for now. Please don't make any further attempts. We are all suffering from the results of your previous ambition to buy a job as it is.
Bitter? No, way to old for that.
Jealous? Hardly, hold to good a position to envy people who work five days in a row.
Worried? Hell yes! When prostitution is being confused with professional pride I worry.
Continue being a dame and make all your DY colleagues proud!
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 06:06   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 63
bought pride??

Do you now me man? How can you stupid ass be so fu/#/&# ing shure I bought anything?
go Fu... yourself you judgmental MTF!

Last edited by Init-Refpage; 24th Jul 2012 at 07:47.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 08:27   #24 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NORWAY
Age: 51
Posts: 28
Easy guys, easy.....
The industry (aviation) is extremely pressed today, and thanks to the low cost companies, it's a rough ride for all. But we are all in the same boat, in some way.

But of course it would be great if the gentelmens (and ladies) in front row of Norwegian, Ryanair etc etc is taking some steps ahead to improve the escalating development. DY Union said ok to the boss, when he asked for two more years - for employment of pilots with noe securities, low salary, no insurance...
In HEL-base they have CA's with salaries down to 650 euro's a month. Extremely low, even much worse than FR, and of course all this put the Nordic industry under further pressure. But there is now reason to go crazy, better try to get some kind of communication between the groups...

Tally-Ho
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 10:03   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
Since DY never gave away ratings I'm pretty sure you bought something along the way.
If you think that's something to be proud of go ahead and keep your pride...
Go f*** myself? Way to lazy for that, I let my wife and girlfriends take care of that ;-)
Relax, then come back with a couple of thought out points of how you and your peers are not f***in' up the industry?
"I don't now you man" you're right about that.
What I do know though after flying with way to many f/o's with your attitude is that usually sooner than later you end up in the shit.
The business is small, especially in the Nordic countries. The difference between the smarter young/new guys in the business compared to their not so successful peers is that they understand the concept of watching and learning with their mouth shut.
No one gives a shit about your hours in a hangar or other tough times because back in the days that's what most of us did, it used to be the norm that you had to earn your career progression, not buy it.
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 16:57   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 51
Angry

In HEL-base they have CA's with salaries down to 650 euro's a month. Extremely low, even much worse than FR, and of course all this put the Nordic industry under further pressure. But there is now reason to go crazy, better try to get some kind of communication between the groups...

Tally-Ho]


How can they afford to eat?
A couple of OSL layovers would almost take care of the whole months salary!
Wonder if they got any takers for the 787 spots in BKK? I hope not!
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 18:46   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 63
Dont hate the player, hate the game
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Old 24th Jul 2012, 20:38   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sverige
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Can you live on a salary of 5100€? Can maybe somebody on the contract share som info? Thanks
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 00:56   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
Don't play the game in a way that makes everyone hate the player.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 01:43   #30 (permalink)

SkyGod
 
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Quote:
In HEL-base they have CA's with salaries down to 650 euro's a month
Typo check...Surely ya mean 6,500.00 Euros per month?

650 won't buy ya much of anything in Helsinki except some shares of Nokia..
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 11:42   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Good one, Towerdog 6,500 euros would only be 1,500 euros less than a 787 captain in BKK for Norwegian In easyjet, the cabin crew get 500 euros pr. month netto pay as base salary in the Lisbon base. They may be able to make up to 500 euros in sector/flight pay. Not a nice industry anymore.
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 17:30   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: upper hemisphere
Posts: 77
As always it's supply and demand. There are pilots willing to accept the continuously lower standards imposed by the companies each and every day. Young guys and gals live with the assumption that being a pilot is a respected and fruitful profession where you will end up making a good bunch of money. Fact is, new joiners will never have the T&C the guys that have been in the industry for a few years have.

I am myself a pilot with Norwegian and I am lucky enough to be on the good side. I see new "colleagues" in the crew room every day who wears the same uniform and performs the same job but at much lower salary (i.e a shitty contract). It is no fun. I don't like working in a company where there is an A-team and a B-team.

Many where hoping that the union in DY would stand fast and provide a revolutionary change to the contract-pilot-problem in Europe. Unfortunately it would seem that the reality is somewhat different than that. First of all, CEO Bjorn Kjos is a lawyer himself. He is an extremely tough player who knows this game inside and out. Secondly, it was not even clear that a strike would have been legal which in turn would have meant that had it been deemed illegal, the union would have had their ass sued over and over. BK made it very clear that he had the full right to transfer staff freely in the EU according to the 4 "freedoms" of the EU. Internal Market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe the future of our profession lies in the legislation. Without proper employment laws and regulations regarding duty times etc we are more or less fukced. Union work must be based upon current legislations. Having many years left in this industry I many times wonder if I will ever wear my uniform with pride again or if I will continue to be that hated employee who costs a lot of money but coincidentally operates advance machinery during all hours of the day and night in adverse conditions under constant time pressure making sure that the every so less paying passengers arrives safely at their destinations...
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Old 25th Jul 2012, 20:18   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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As one of your new "Colleagues" I know exactly where you are coming from, and we appreciate that you tried. . . . a shame the legislation is on the side of the company . . . but no surprises there. Unfortunately, "money talks"
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Old 26th Jul 2012, 17:00   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 2,889
PicMas,

To the list that you deride so readily you can add the elected & unelected politicians from your own country, & the EEC, who allow this to happen, because their big buddies in big business want it to.

Ryanair are seldom brought to task for this, indeed they now have a "detachment" in Marseilles to replace the "base" they closed after the French insistence on social charges/contracts resulted in them closing the "base". . . see a difference ? nope, me neither. . blind French eye turned.

BK knows that similarly selective perception of his actions are guaranteed, which is why he does it, & why the Unions can't do too much. BKK base ? don't like it ? well if you make too much fuss I will move everything to an offshore AOC & take my money out of Norway. Threats to close bases has already been utilised (successfully) to bring permanent pilots to heel over certain matters, so lay off the "Contract pilots are bringing us down" bandwagon, we are not alone in reacting whilst mindful of our self interests.

This financial blackmail of Govts/Airports/Aircraft Manufacturers/Employees has already been proven to be devastatingly effective by O' Leary.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery & regretably the emphasis in DY has swung towards profit, with social "care" going down the list.
If you seriously think that me, or indeed any pilot, throwing our toys out of the pram & demanding better conditions will stop this march towards the bottom , you are deluded.
I have witnessed it 1st hand in FR, tried to resist it (Oh Yes I have believe me) & have seen no-one behind me to back me up, so Yes, whilst very appreciative of the Unions efforts, I will not sacrifice what is a competitive contract job on the altar of principles. Standing (principled) in the unemployment line will not pay the bills, & you, & all the other strident individuals on here would do the same thing if your circumstances demanded it.
Walk out (or refuse to enter) the door if you don't have (or get offered ) what you rightfully deserve, & enjoy the free time spent home contemplating how far your principals are advancing your career & the status of our profession.
Above all, be realistic in your expectations of how far you can advance a cause that many have been fighting for much longer than you have probably held a licence, & show a little humility & understanding of other individuals need to, & right to, work. We would all like better, but sometimes we have to concede there are battles we can't win & just accept the best that is available. Of course we should all stand together & try to slow the decline, but, how much any of us can achieve , either as individuals, or collectively, is severely hampered by legislation that is very company orientated leaving us fighting with one hand tied behind our back.

Levity & realism are an asset in this profession, both from a personal & professional perspective. You should contemplate developing some, lest you spend all your career bitter & angry. . . not good for you, nor indeed the ambience that you will bring to the flightdeck.
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Old 30th Jul 2012, 21:00   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portugal
Posts: 92
Well guys, from what i have been reading here, i think we can't compare Norwegian with Ryanair.

Ryanair is always polemic. Norwegian in my opinion is much more low profile. This company is growing on good steps, achieving good markets . They seem to be on good track.

I think what most of us wants know are : the working conditions, rosters and salaries, and etc...

Last edited by trancada; 30th Jul 2012 at 21:04.
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Old 30th Jul 2012, 22:02   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
Conditions and rosters are what you are willing to pay for today, but be quick, there will always be an other idiot prepared to pay more than you tomorrow.
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 14:16   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 501
Quote:
I believe the future of our profession lies in the legislation. Without proper employment laws and regulations regarding duty times etc we are more or less fukced. Union work must be based upon current legislations. Having many years left in this industry I many times wonder if I will ever wear my uniform with pride again or if I will continue to be that hated employee who costs a lot of money but coincidentally operates advance machinery during all hours of the day and night in adverse conditions under constant time pressure making sure that the every so less paying passengers arrives safely at their destinations...
Voila!!

Quote:
There is no excuse for being a gutless coward, afraid of taking a stand, and thats what you are when "employed" by Ryanair, Norwegian et al, gutless cowards!
See what happened to the poor Ryanair contract F/O's that tried to make a stand refusing to pay £29 (or something like that..?) for a Ryanair ID that became mandatory to work through Spain and Portugal. "Thanks - we don't need your services anymore" Was it worth loosing your job over £29???

Captplaystation and the likes got it right! The AUTO/MAN types are just narrow minded.

Supply & demand - their is always someone to sell themselves cheaper. That's why, IMHO, the unions should not target the airlines that are just playing the game. They should lobby for the European Union, like they've done with the new FTLs, to change the rules.

And, the general public has to understand you cannot fly to the canary islands for €10!!
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 18:37   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: scandinavia
Posts: 151
Well, just heard what the poor MPL-guys that started at DY get paid during their training....
Anyone willing to take a guess??
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 19:26   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 65
Det er vel ulønnet, som veldig mange andre praktikantstillinger. Ikke et unikt problem for luftfart.

Slik jeg har forstått det så har andre selskap som har hatt MPL-praktikanter blant annet inngått en avtale med fagforeningen sin om at det i utgangspunktet ble satt opp vanlige styrmenn på flightene. Så kunne de erstattes av en MPL-elev, mot at selskapet betalte styrmannen som ble satt av, det han ville tjent ved å fly selv.

Last edited by Icenor; 3rd Aug 2012 at 19:30.
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Old 3rd Aug 2012, 19:59   #40 (permalink)
 
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Berserker, ryktet vil ha det til at det er hele €1000 i måneden Men kanskje vi får vite det fra de det gjelder? Eller de som deler cockpit med dem?
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