Robin Olds
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Robin Olds
I'm reading Robin Olds biography. It really is the very best flying biography I have ever read, & I have read many. It contains many thoughts from him. This one (slightly abridged) made me ponder: 'In the military there are 4 types of people: the 'me-firsters', the 'me-tooers', the deadwood', and the 'dedicated'. The 'me-firsters' are totally selfish and think only of themselves. They are often intelligent and totally ruthless, they will stick a knife in your back to advance their career. The 'me-tooers' tell you what you want to hear, they borrow thoughts and ideas from others and offer them as their own. They are lazy & ride on other's coattails and suck up to the Boss. Then there is the 'deadwood'. They try hard and are loyal, but they are useless. The minority is the 'dedicated' who are often used and rarely get their just rewards.'
Sharpend,
Very similar to Boyd's "To be or to do..." monologue...
“Tiger,” he would say, “one day you will come to a fork in the road:”
“And you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go.” He raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.” Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something — something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference.
To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?”
BTW - I concur, it's one of the very best books I've ever read.....
Very similar to Boyd's "To be or to do..." monologue...
“Tiger,” he would say, “one day you will come to a fork in the road:”
“And you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go.” He raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.” Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something — something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference.
To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?”
BTW - I concur, it's one of the very best books I've ever read.....
For sure he was the Lead from the Front sort of guy....and demanded and got the best from those under him....including their respect and loyalty!
First exchange pilot to be assigned as an RAF Squadron boss as I recall. His experience of flying a Meteor in typical UK weather is a real eye opener. He also married one of the most beautiful women in Hollywood, he pretty much did it all and had it all. His was a life lived and no mistake.
A couple of anecdotes from memory (please excuse any inaccuracies):
When warned that there would be courts-martial if any more fighter pilots deliberately smashed glasses during parties in the officer's mess he assembled the group and gave them all a thorough dressing down and threatened them accordingly, and then told them to smash every piece of furniture in the place.
Very nearly crashed on his first flight in an F-4 that departed when trying to replicate the type's adverse yaw phenomenon at low speed/high altitude.
Once threatened to fire Sidewinders at a tanker that refused his completely bingo'd F-4 any fuel when returning from a combat mission. He claims he was deadly serious, and he got the fuel.
Hated the AIM-4 Falcon with a passion.
Once took a squadron technician on an air experience ride in a P-38 and flew above cloud to Denmark unbeknownst to his passenger where he then promptly descended and strafed a German supply train. The tech was still shaking when they landed back in England.
Presided at an Air Force graduation ceremony after being appointed academy Commandant and noticed a "ripple" on either side of the approaching Voodoo (I think) just before it went supersonic over the assembled cadre and school buildings at low level. While stood to attention and realising what was about to happen he quietly muttered to himself "uh oh" - there was hell to pay as pretty much every window in the academy was blown out.
In old age and breathing from an oxygen cylinder his last wish was to take an early morning flight in an F-4 one last time at low level.
Apparently he was bemused by the RAF squadron tradition of playing Highcokalorum (spelling ?) - he described it as basically a brawl, if anyone would care to enlighten me.......
A couple of anecdotes from memory (please excuse any inaccuracies):
When warned that there would be courts-martial if any more fighter pilots deliberately smashed glasses during parties in the officer's mess he assembled the group and gave them all a thorough dressing down and threatened them accordingly, and then told them to smash every piece of furniture in the place.
Very nearly crashed on his first flight in an F-4 that departed when trying to replicate the type's adverse yaw phenomenon at low speed/high altitude.
Once threatened to fire Sidewinders at a tanker that refused his completely bingo'd F-4 any fuel when returning from a combat mission. He claims he was deadly serious, and he got the fuel.
Hated the AIM-4 Falcon with a passion.
Once took a squadron technician on an air experience ride in a P-38 and flew above cloud to Denmark unbeknownst to his passenger where he then promptly descended and strafed a German supply train. The tech was still shaking when they landed back in England.
Presided at an Air Force graduation ceremony after being appointed academy Commandant and noticed a "ripple" on either side of the approaching Voodoo (I think) just before it went supersonic over the assembled cadre and school buildings at low level. While stood to attention and realising what was about to happen he quietly muttered to himself "uh oh" - there was hell to pay as pretty much every window in the academy was blown out.
In old age and breathing from an oxygen cylinder his last wish was to take an early morning flight in an F-4 one last time at low level.
Apparently he was bemused by the RAF squadron tradition of playing Highcokalorum (spelling ?) - he described it as basically a brawl, if anyone would care to enlighten me.......
Last edited by Fonsini; 22nd Mar 2017 at 19:32.
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Presided at an Air Force graduation ceremony after being appointed academy Commandant and noticed a "ripple" on either side of the approaching Voodoo (I think) just before it went supersonic over the assembled cadre and school buildings at low level. While stood to attention and realising what was about to happen he quietly muttered to himself "uh oh" - there was hell to pay as pretty much every window in the academy was blown out.
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An obituary of Brigadier General Olds from a decade ago, obviously his inspiring leadership style is no longer in the vogue in the modern American military 
:
Robin Olds, 84, Fighter Ace and Hero of Big Vietnam Battle, Dies - The New York Times
:
Robin Olds, 84, Fighter Ace and Hero of Big Vietnam Battle, Dies
By DOUGLAS MARTIN
JUNE 20, 2007
Brig. Gen. Robin Olds, a World War II fighter ace who became an aviation legend by commanding the Air Force wing that shot down seven MIGs over North Vietnam in the biggest air battle of the Vietnam War, died last Thursday at his home in Steamboat Springs, Colo. He was 84.
The Air Force said the cause was congestive heart failure. He had earlier been treated for prostate cancer.
General Olds, who in the course of a long career flew 65 kinds of military planes, almost perfectly filled the role of hotshot flier. Piloting P-38 Lightnings and P-51 Mustangs, he shot down 12 planes during World War II. In Vietnam, he led the Eighth Tactical Fighter Wing, which scored 24 such kills, an unsurpassed total for that conflict.
In all, he downed 16 enemy aircraft in the two wars, making him a triple ace. (Five kills are needed to become an ace.) And when he could not wrangle a combat assignment in the Korean War, he participated in transcontinental jet races and flew with the Air Force’s first aerobatic demonstration team.
Adding to his glamorous image, General Olds was a former all-American football player at West Point and the husband of a movie star, Ella Raines. In a gesture of individuality, he grew an enormous, meticulously waxed handlebar mustache. And even as a commanding officer, he made a point of placing himself on the flight schedule as a rookie pilot under officers his junior.
But his greatest moment came on Jan. 2, 1967, when, as a colonel, he created an aerial trap for enemy MIGs. Called Operation Bolo, the trap entailed use of radar-jamming devices and other tactics to make faster, more maneuverable F-4s appear to be the slower F-105s used for bombing missions. When the MIGs responded by attacking what seemed to be F-105s, the F-4s downed seven of them.
“The MIGs reacted as we had hoped,” Colonel Olds, who had led the mission himself, told a news conference in Saigon shortly afterward. “To make a wonderfully long story short, they lost.”
The New York Times that May called him “everybody’s choice as the hottest pilot of the Vietnam War,” and last year the History Channel televised a computer animation, complete with his commentary, of his big Vietnam battle.
General Olds went on to serve in many countries and positions, including assignments to Air Force headquarters and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. From 1967 to 1971, he was commandant of cadets at the Air Force Academy.
At a time when the Air Force was focused on nuclear strategy, General Olds argued for strengthening conventional warfare capabilities. “Throughout his career, he was a staunch advocate for better fighters, better pilot training and new tactics, culminating in the war-winning air-to-air tactics and doctrine of surgical precision bombing that we use today,” Gen. T. Michael Moseley, Air Force chief of staff, said in a statement after General Olds’s death.
Robin Olds was born on July 14, 1922, in Honolulu. His mother, Eloise, died when he was 4. His father, Maj. Gen. Robert Olds, a World War I combat pilot who helped devise the United States’ air-power strategy, reared him as a single parent.
Robin first flew at age 8 in an open-cockpit biplane operated by his father. At 12, he vowed to attend West Point, where he hoped to play football and begin the path to becoming a military aviator. He did win admission, and played for the renowned coach Red Blaik, compiling so stellar a record as a tackle on both offense and defense that in 1985 he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
He was commissioned on June 1, 1943, and completed his pilot training later that year. He was assigned to the European theater, where he flew 107 missions and was credited with destruction of 11 ½ aircraft on the ground — another pilot assisted in destroying one of them — in addition to the dozen he shot from the sky.
After World War II, General Olds became one of the first Air Force pilots to fly jets. But partly because his manner of defiant individualism was a thorn in the side of superiors, he was unsuccessful in efforts to be assigned to Korea, and did not return to combat for 22 years.
General Olds received many medals, including the Air Force Cross, the branch’s second-highest decoration. He pointed out on occasion that he had never received a Purple Heart, but he did come close.
In March 1967, he led a strike against a steelworks in North Vietnam. He was flying so low, he said in an interview that year, that it seemed the gunners on roofs were shooting down at him. An enemy round tore a hole the size of a basketball in his right wing, but the fire went out and he made it home.
For a brief time his father was married to Nina Gore Auchincloss, making General Olds a stepbrother of the writer Gore Vidal. His first wife, Miss Raines, a favorite pinup girl of the era, died in 1988. A later marriage, to Morgan Olds, ended in divorce. He is survived by two daughters, Christina Olds of Vail, Colo., and Susan Scott-Risner of North Bend, Wash.; a half-brother, Fred Olds of Virginia Beach; and a granddaughter, Jennifer Newman of Santa Monica, Calif.
General Olds once said his magnificent mustache represented his defiance. It lasted until, as a colonel, he went to Washington after his service in Vietnam to meet the Air Force chief of staff, Gen. John P. McConnell. General McConnell stuck a finger under Colonel Olds’s nose and commanded, “Take it off.”
By DOUGLAS MARTIN
JUNE 20, 2007
Brig. Gen. Robin Olds, a World War II fighter ace who became an aviation legend by commanding the Air Force wing that shot down seven MIGs over North Vietnam in the biggest air battle of the Vietnam War, died last Thursday at his home in Steamboat Springs, Colo. He was 84.
The Air Force said the cause was congestive heart failure. He had earlier been treated for prostate cancer.
General Olds, who in the course of a long career flew 65 kinds of military planes, almost perfectly filled the role of hotshot flier. Piloting P-38 Lightnings and P-51 Mustangs, he shot down 12 planes during World War II. In Vietnam, he led the Eighth Tactical Fighter Wing, which scored 24 such kills, an unsurpassed total for that conflict.
In all, he downed 16 enemy aircraft in the two wars, making him a triple ace. (Five kills are needed to become an ace.) And when he could not wrangle a combat assignment in the Korean War, he participated in transcontinental jet races and flew with the Air Force’s first aerobatic demonstration team.
Adding to his glamorous image, General Olds was a former all-American football player at West Point and the husband of a movie star, Ella Raines. In a gesture of individuality, he grew an enormous, meticulously waxed handlebar mustache. And even as a commanding officer, he made a point of placing himself on the flight schedule as a rookie pilot under officers his junior.
But his greatest moment came on Jan. 2, 1967, when, as a colonel, he created an aerial trap for enemy MIGs. Called Operation Bolo, the trap entailed use of radar-jamming devices and other tactics to make faster, more maneuverable F-4s appear to be the slower F-105s used for bombing missions. When the MIGs responded by attacking what seemed to be F-105s, the F-4s downed seven of them.
“The MIGs reacted as we had hoped,” Colonel Olds, who had led the mission himself, told a news conference in Saigon shortly afterward. “To make a wonderfully long story short, they lost.”
The New York Times that May called him “everybody’s choice as the hottest pilot of the Vietnam War,” and last year the History Channel televised a computer animation, complete with his commentary, of his big Vietnam battle.
General Olds went on to serve in many countries and positions, including assignments to Air Force headquarters and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. From 1967 to 1971, he was commandant of cadets at the Air Force Academy.
At a time when the Air Force was focused on nuclear strategy, General Olds argued for strengthening conventional warfare capabilities. “Throughout his career, he was a staunch advocate for better fighters, better pilot training and new tactics, culminating in the war-winning air-to-air tactics and doctrine of surgical precision bombing that we use today,” Gen. T. Michael Moseley, Air Force chief of staff, said in a statement after General Olds’s death.
Robin Olds was born on July 14, 1922, in Honolulu. His mother, Eloise, died when he was 4. His father, Maj. Gen. Robert Olds, a World War I combat pilot who helped devise the United States’ air-power strategy, reared him as a single parent.
Robin first flew at age 8 in an open-cockpit biplane operated by his father. At 12, he vowed to attend West Point, where he hoped to play football and begin the path to becoming a military aviator. He did win admission, and played for the renowned coach Red Blaik, compiling so stellar a record as a tackle on both offense and defense that in 1985 he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
He was commissioned on June 1, 1943, and completed his pilot training later that year. He was assigned to the European theater, where he flew 107 missions and was credited with destruction of 11 ½ aircraft on the ground — another pilot assisted in destroying one of them — in addition to the dozen he shot from the sky.
After World War II, General Olds became one of the first Air Force pilots to fly jets. But partly because his manner of defiant individualism was a thorn in the side of superiors, he was unsuccessful in efforts to be assigned to Korea, and did not return to combat for 22 years.
General Olds received many medals, including the Air Force Cross, the branch’s second-highest decoration. He pointed out on occasion that he had never received a Purple Heart, but he did come close.
In March 1967, he led a strike against a steelworks in North Vietnam. He was flying so low, he said in an interview that year, that it seemed the gunners on roofs were shooting down at him. An enemy round tore a hole the size of a basketball in his right wing, but the fire went out and he made it home.
For a brief time his father was married to Nina Gore Auchincloss, making General Olds a stepbrother of the writer Gore Vidal. His first wife, Miss Raines, a favorite pinup girl of the era, died in 1988. A later marriage, to Morgan Olds, ended in divorce. He is survived by two daughters, Christina Olds of Vail, Colo., and Susan Scott-Risner of North Bend, Wash.; a half-brother, Fred Olds of Virginia Beach; and a granddaughter, Jennifer Newman of Santa Monica, Calif.
General Olds once said his magnificent mustache represented his defiance. It lasted until, as a colonel, he went to Washington after his service in Vietnam to meet the Air Force chief of staff, Gen. John P. McConnell. General McConnell stuck a finger under Colonel Olds’s nose and commanded, “Take it off.”
Appreciate the corrections, and I have a feeling Gen. Olds would have liked the break glass quip. I think it's also worth adding that he thought highly of the British and enjoyed his time as an RAF squadron leader, which does tend to put me in mind of another even more famous American fighter pilot of the same era who as an Englishman I once had the misfortune to meet....
One last mention, and only since it made such an obvious impression on him. Gen. Olds was a chronic piles sufferer, brought about by g straining and the suchlike. He eventually had them operated on and claimed that the subsequent pain during recovery was the worst he had ever experienced in his life. He referred to it as the "Fighter Pilot's Disease" - so take care you young Typhoon pilots.
I think I once asked about Highcokalorum in a prior thread, but a reminder would be appreciated - how exactly does one play it ?
One last mention, and only since it made such an obvious impression on him. Gen. Olds was a chronic piles sufferer, brought about by g straining and the suchlike. He eventually had them operated on and claimed that the subsequent pain during recovery was the worst he had ever experienced in his life. He referred to it as the "Fighter Pilot's Disease" - so take care you young Typhoon pilots.
I think I once asked about Highcokalorum in a prior thread, but a reminder would be appreciated - how exactly does one play it ?
Last edited by Fonsini; 22nd Mar 2017 at 22:14.
Robin Olds 'break glass'
The 'Break Glass' comment alludes to the American fighter pilot fable regarding Robin Olds.
RO was not noted for following rules but definitely the man to have around when needed.
The Fighter pilots fable stated that in the Pentagon was a glass cabinet with a frozen RO complete with flying gear and .38.
Next to the cabinet was a fire axe and instructions.
IN CASE OF WAR BREAK GLASS (says it all)
RO was not noted for following rules but definitely the man to have around when needed.
The Fighter pilots fable stated that in the Pentagon was a glass cabinet with a frozen RO complete with flying gear and .38.
Next to the cabinet was a fire axe and instructions.
IN CASE OF WAR BREAK GLASS (says it all)
Thread Starter
Now finished the biography and what a read it was. I'm now not so sure he was the 'best' fighter pilot of all time. Difficult to quantify that anyway as he did not get the opportunities that the Luftwaffe pilots got on the Russian front in WW2. In fact his kill tally was quite small, even compared with some RAF pilots in WW2, but he joined that fight very late in the war and of course kills were quite restricted in Vietnam. Much to his annoyance, he missed Korea. He was a maverick and very much a thorn in the side of the Pentagon. But I suppose they could not get rid of him, for several reasons. It is a pity that he wrote rather a lot about his personal life and the book ended on a sad note with the reading getting an impression of an old very disappointed man who was infirm and waiting to die. But he will be remembered for leading the F4 Wolfpack over North Vietnam. A larger than life character and certainly an interesting one. RIP Robin, wish I had met you.
R Olds & No 1 SDN Tangmere
Is there an account anywhere of his time as CO of NO 1 at Tangmere. !!
Preferably what really happened as opposed to the 'official line' .
I suspect he was not that 'enthralled' with the Meteor as a front line fighter especially having sampled the Sabre.
Preferably what really happened as opposed to the 'official line' .
I suspect he was not that 'enthralled' with the Meteor as a front line fighter especially having sampled the Sabre.
Thread Starter
Quite a bit about his time with 1 Sqn in his book; Exchange with the RAF 1948. He talks about the difference in language, the terrible weather, the awful living conditions and the Sqn history. Unless I missed it, I could find no reference to him in his book being OC 1 Sqn, though this is written in Wikipedia: 'Olds went to England under the U.S. Air Force/Royal Air Force Exchange Program in 1948. Flying the Gloster Meteor jet fighter, he commanded No. 1 Squadron at Royal Air Force Station Tangmere between October 20, 1948 and September 25, 1949, the first foreigner to command an RAF unit in peacetime'. I wonder why it is not mentioned in his biography as it was quite an honour and most unusual. Certainly he arrived as just an exchange pilot as he talks about the CO. As for Meteor v F86, he flew the Sabre after the Meatbox.
Last edited by sharpend; 11th Apr 2017 at 15:01.
Olds in the RAF
K Parry Could you please give some hints as to the accuracy of the statement re Olds being an Exchange CO.
I would have thought that it would be worth a book on its own.
Thanks PP
I would have thought that it would be worth a book on its own.
Thanks PP
Could you please give some hints as to the accuracy of the statement re Olds being an Exchange CO
Brigadier General Robin Olds - Telegraph
K Parry Could you please give some hints as to the accuracy of the statement re Olds being an Exchange CO.
"The squadron's first USAF exchange officer arrived at Tangmere in October 1948. This was Major Robin Olds..... he was posted in as a Flight Commander....It was no surprise that when Sqn Ldr Burne was posted in March (meaning 1949), the Air Ministry approved the appointment of Major Olds as CO of 1 Sqn for the rest of his tour in England. This was the first time that an officer of a foreign Air Force had commanded an RAF squadron in peacetime."
In the Appendix listing COs of No 1 (F) Sqn, Major Olds is shown as in command from 4 Feb 1949 (yes, Feb, despite the above mention of March) until his successor was in post on 1 Oct 1949.
