Petition by Carol Voderman
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Tankertrashnav (#7),
Nail on head ! On my knees, would need sheer legs and block 'n tackle to get me upright again ! Forget it !
Honorary Ranks to Celebrities will be getting a bad Press soon (I have in mind a Honorary Lt-Cmdr in the RNR, who is fairly well known on another PPRuNe Forum.
Pity about Ms Vorderman, done a lot of good work with the Cadets by all accounts, very easy on the eye, then does a damn' silly thing like this to spoil it all.
Have been worse things, I suppose, a few years back, didn't they put the junior Royals up for some of these infantile capers ? Hardly a PR triumph !
Gilbert had it right: "When Everybody's Somebody, Nobody's Anybody" (or something like it).
Danny.
Nail on head ! On my knees, would need sheer legs and block 'n tackle to get me upright again ! Forget it !
Honorary Ranks to Celebrities will be getting a bad Press soon (I have in mind a Honorary Lt-Cmdr in the RNR, who is fairly well known on another PPRuNe Forum.
Pity about Ms Vorderman, done a lot of good work with the Cadets by all accounts, very easy on the eye, then does a damn' silly thing like this to spoil it all.
Have been worse things, I suppose, a few years back, didn't they put the junior Royals up for some of these infantile capers ? Hardly a PR triumph !
Gilbert had it right: "When Everybody's Somebody, Nobody's Anybody" (or something like it).
Danny.
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To all the denigrators, please read Johnny Johnson's biography, available here -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Britis.../dp/0091957753 and you might reevaluate. I think the submission for recognition is badly constructed and focuses too much on the dams raid.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Britis.../dp/0091957753 and you might reevaluate. I think the submission for recognition is badly constructed and focuses too much on the dams raid.
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I agree totally with jindabyne. The very gallant gentleman was decorated for bravery with a DFM. Unless he has done something very significant post war to warrant a Knighthood, then he should not get one. My uncle, a Lancaster pilot, was killed in action over the Ruhr, and equally was a brave man, but like many never received any medals. Moreover, I agree the comments re 'that lady'. In my opinion, she has brought the RAF and her uniform into disrepute by her antics in 'The Jungle'. Can you imagine what would happen if a regular RAF officer behaved like that on TV?
IMO of course.
Quote from sharpend:
"Can you imagine what would happen if a regular RAF officer behaved like that on TV?"
My wife and I watched most of the episodes that Carol Vorderman was in (yes, that sad!
) and I simply don't understand what behaviour you found inappropriate. Or is it just her taking part in a "reality" [sic] show that you are objecting to? I've never been a fan, but my opinion of her went up because of her maturity and empathy with the group. It's hardly a picnic. We were disappointed that she was eliminated about half way.
Surely her wearing of a senior RAFVR officer's uniform as an ambassador for the Air Cadets is legitimate, and is known to be only an honorary, part-time role? Therefore, she's perfectly entitled to continue with her career elsewhere, even if that sometimes involves what some of us might regard as froth. It's refreshing to have one celebrity who's able and prepared to promote maths and science, and of course aviation.
Having said that, I'm not sure she's doing the right thing in this petition. As a civilian I regard the disdain in which WW2 Bomber Command has been held by all governments and the holier-than-thou establishment for nearly 72 years now as a national disgrace. I suspect, however, that Squadron Leader Johnson would not want to be knighted simply because of the accident of longevity. No doubt he would say that its award would also reflect belated recognition of his deceased colleagues, but he would know only too well that such a sentiment would really be missing the point. For government to start awarding honours this late in the day could be regarded as an insult to those survivors who remained officially dis-honoured to the grave.
I've not read his autobiography and if his post-RAF activities merit some kind of honour, that's another matter.
"Can you imagine what would happen if a regular RAF officer behaved like that on TV?"
My wife and I watched most of the episodes that Carol Vorderman was in (yes, that sad!
) and I simply don't understand what behaviour you found inappropriate. Or is it just her taking part in a "reality" [sic] show that you are objecting to? I've never been a fan, but my opinion of her went up because of her maturity and empathy with the group. It's hardly a picnic. We were disappointed that she was eliminated about half way. Surely her wearing of a senior RAFVR officer's uniform as an ambassador for the Air Cadets is legitimate, and is known to be only an honorary, part-time role? Therefore, she's perfectly entitled to continue with her career elsewhere, even if that sometimes involves what some of us might regard as froth. It's refreshing to have one celebrity who's able and prepared to promote maths and science, and of course aviation.
Having said that, I'm not sure she's doing the right thing in this petition. As a civilian I regard the disdain in which WW2 Bomber Command has been held by all governments and the holier-than-thou establishment for nearly 72 years now as a national disgrace. I suspect, however, that Squadron Leader Johnson would not want to be knighted simply because of the accident of longevity. No doubt he would say that its award would also reflect belated recognition of his deceased colleagues, but he would know only too well that such a sentiment would really be missing the point. For government to start awarding honours this late in the day could be regarded as an insult to those survivors who remained officially dis-honoured to the grave.
I've not read his autobiography and if his post-RAF activities merit some kind of honour, that's another matter.
Chris, I have read his autobiography and can not see anything post war that merits the high award of a Knighthood. What he, and many many others, did in WW2 was incredibly brave and all crew members of RAF bombers should have received honours & awards (at the time). That Bomber Command took the flack for doing the politicians bidding (incidently, probably saving the free world from the Nazi jackboot) was unforgivable. The memorial to Bomber Command came far too late.
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A knighthood is simply an inappropriate award in this situation.
Being an active part of HM forces no matter what operation one was on is not a matter for a knighthood, that is simply the wrong gong. Besides, he has evidently been decorated, and well decorated for the part he played already. Merely passing the lottery of life to be the last remaining man on his op is even less qualification for an award, let alone one as exalted as a knighthood
If what he did deserves a knighthood today he deserved it just as much in 1944. It follows, then, that every man-jack that served with him did too. If they were not so knighted than why should he be?
Are we really in a position, morally, logically or legally to start dishing out the highest awards to old soldiers merely because they have lived a long life? Do we make value judgements on which of these old boys we decorate? Why? Because one was involved in a high-profile op and another wasn't? This makes a mockery of the entire concept of medals and awards and is a travesty on several levels.
The fragrant Gp Captain has overstepped the mark with her enthusiasm on this occasion, and it is not to the betterment of the nation, the soldier to whom is inappropriately directed, his oppos who didn't have the luck of such long life or any other surviving soldier of that war.
I'd be surprised if he, and they, didn't agree.
Being an active part of HM forces no matter what operation one was on is not a matter for a knighthood, that is simply the wrong gong. Besides, he has evidently been decorated, and well decorated for the part he played already. Merely passing the lottery of life to be the last remaining man on his op is even less qualification for an award, let alone one as exalted as a knighthood
If what he did deserves a knighthood today he deserved it just as much in 1944. It follows, then, that every man-jack that served with him did too. If they were not so knighted than why should he be?
Are we really in a position, morally, logically or legally to start dishing out the highest awards to old soldiers merely because they have lived a long life? Do we make value judgements on which of these old boys we decorate? Why? Because one was involved in a high-profile op and another wasn't? This makes a mockery of the entire concept of medals and awards and is a travesty on several levels.
The fragrant Gp Captain has overstepped the mark with her enthusiasm on this occasion, and it is not to the betterment of the nation, the soldier to whom is inappropriately directed, his oppos who didn't have the luck of such long life or any other surviving soldier of that war.
I'd be surprised if he, and they, didn't agree.
I've met the Gp Capt a couple of times as a passenger. She's charming, unassuming and a genuine aviation person. The cabin crew love her. As ambassadors go the Air Cadet organisation could do an awful lot worse and not much better imho.
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As a fringe to this topic, I'm currently reading Gen Schofield's memoirs, Forty-six Years in the Army, published in 1897.
He recommended himself for the award of the Congressional Medal of Honour!
The Wiki notes: The medal was recommended by Schofield himself when he was interim U.S. Secretary of War (1868–69). Historian Benson Bobrick is critical of this and notes the vagueness of the details in the citation.[3]
He recommended himself for the award of the Congressional Medal of Honour!
The Wiki notes: The medal was recommended by Schofield himself when he was interim U.S. Secretary of War (1868–69). Historian Benson Bobrick is critical of this and notes the vagueness of the details in the citation.[3]
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
MPN, while not as extreme, wasn't there an instance fairly recently in the Army? I have a vague memory that the incident happened but the writer was not present but wrote himself up.
Broadening it, I am sure many of us have done writeups on ourselves st the request of our 1st RO. I know my fair well letter, signed off by the AOC, having been written by my boss was based on my potted history draft.
Broadening it, I am sure many of us have done writeups on ourselves st the request of our 1st RO. I know my fair well letter, signed off by the AOC, having been written by my boss was based on my potted history draft.
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PN, I have a similar vague recollection of some medallic rumpus. I woukd have to trawl AARSE to dig further, but can't be aarsed 
I was put up for an MBE once. I suspect the 6-monthly lottery let me down on that occasion
I was put up for an MBE once. I suspect the 6-monthly lottery let me down on that occasion
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I don't believe that JJ was put up for a knighthood on the basis of his war service but on his subsequent activities- through the accident of longevity (not something he could have expected given his life history) he has spent many years in charitable works & as an ambassador for Bomber Command. Having met him he is a top bloke & using his last days productively.
I would be interested in the minutes of the meeting where they judged him not worthy & then looked over the recommendation for Ken Dodd.....
I would be interested in the minutes of the meeting where they judged him not worthy & then looked over the recommendation for Ken Dodd.....
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I would be interested in the minutes of the meeting where they judged him not worthy & then looked over the recommendation for Ken Dodd.
